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Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1565203  by justalurker66
 
STrRedWolf wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:54 am I think CHI-IND-CHI is itching for corridor service. That means:
  • Service-separated tracks: 1 freight (with passing), 2 passenger.
  • Higher speed track (since it's dedicated track) -- in-cab signals, straightened curves, etc.
  • Level boarding at stations if possible
I'm not sure the market would support the service. I would not expect more than two tracks to be maintained (double track CTC the entire length would be expensive enough). Moving from a barely there to a curve straightening triple track is a giant leap.

I'd support a daily Cardinal.
 #1565227  by STrRedWolf
 
justalurker66 wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:16 pm I'm not sure the market would support the service. I would not expect more than two tracks to be maintained (double track CTC the entire length would be expensive enough). Moving from a barely there to a curve straightening triple track is a giant leap.

I'd support a daily Cardinal.
Looking at this with OpenStreetMap...
  • CSX Monon, Lafayette, Crawfordville Branch, Indianapolis Terminal, Indianapolis Subdivs need double-tracking or more sidings. (Toledo subdiv is largely good,
  • Several stations need more platforms, espeically Cincinnati Union Terminal.
  • Indianapolis station needs two switches.
...in order to support corridor service.

Daily Cardlinal will just need some more sidings.
 #1565232  by justalurker66
 
Double track is certainly more rational than one freight two passenger tracks. Start with adding sidings and then work on connecting sidings.
 #1565251  by electricron
 
justalurker66 wrote: Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:27 am Double track is certainly more rational than one freight two passenger tracks. Start with adding sidings and then work on connecting sidings.
Why? The Cardinal already exists? What do the railroads want to allow daily service for the Cardinal? The answer is certainly different for a return to daily service vs initiating corridor service with multiple trains a day. If we can not agree to limit the discussion to one or the other, we will never agree upon the solutions.
 #1565265  by justalurker66
 
If you want to be picky, the Cardinal is not a corridor train - it is Long Distance. The former corridor trains Hoosier State and Kentucky Cardinal are related for the portion between Indianapolis and Chicago. Improvements that would allow for a corridor train would improve the Cardinal service. A daily Cardinal could help build the demand for a corridor train serving Indianapolis and possibly Cincinnati. There is a lot of overlap.

(Read the prior posts if you want more context to the comment you replied to.)
 #1565272  by eolesen
 
Focus on markets that actually have traffic, and maybe they'll be successful. But the market spoke on CHI-IND long ago...

I used to commute between IND and CHI years ago, and the demand simply isn't there. Airline frequencies and capacity have steadily gone down from medium size jets to 70 seat turboprops to 50 seat jets.

Megabus won't even bother with the market. If the for-profit people are pulling back or ignoring the market entirely, what makes anyone think it's going to increase after a couple million in track upgrades or going to a once-daily pattern of service?
 #1574117  by gokeefe
 

eolesen wrote:Megabus won't even bother with the market. If the for-profit people are pulling back or ignoring the market entirely, what makes anyone think it's going to increase after a couple million in track upgrades or going to a once-daily pattern of service?
That would have been a really good argument against Portland-Boston or Portland North service at one point. What changed was infrastructure improvements both for the bus and rail.

The market spoke on the "as is" offering CHI-IND. The results would *not* be the same if the corridor is improved. I say this from the point of view about the Cardinal itself and any parallel corridor services.



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 #1591779  by WhartonAndNorthern
 
With NICTD/South Shore Line building the West Lake Corridor out to Dyer (opening 2025), has there been any talk of rerouting the Cardinal (and a potentially resurrected Hoosier State) on the new route? Oddly, the last stop on the line is at Dyer/Main Street, a half mile north of the Amtrak station.

Presently, Amtrak is scheduled for an hour and a half run between Dyer and Chicago Union Station, a distance of only 29 rail miles (only 59 minutes westbound). NICTD proposes a running time of 38 to 46 minutes from Munster/Dyer Main Street to Millennium Station.

Amtrak would need to back in to Union Station, just like the CONO and Illini/Saluki. Obviously, Amtrak would need to gain permission from NICTD to operate on their line, but considering how much Feddy bucks are going into the project (FTA but not FRA), I'm surprised there's no quid pro quo. The FEIS states " The FEIS Preferred Alternative would not affect the current service provided by Amtrak nor preclude future Amtrak service use." (3.2.4.1)

At present, CREATE Project P2 is supposed to untangle Belt Junction and speed up Cardinal Service as well as reroute Metra SouthWest Service to ex-Rock Island tracks and LaSalle Street Station. Once SouthWest Service trains are removed from the NS Chicago Line, the freed up slots will allow Project P4 to construct a flyover from the ex-IC to the NS line at Grand Crossing to eliminate backup moves into Union Station. Obviously, P4 would benefit the Cardinal if it used the West Lake Extension and could also benefit even without, as there have been some historical proposals to reroute the Cardinal on to the ex-IC near Harvey Station.
 #1591789  by scratchyX1
 
I've been wondering why it doesn't connect to the amtrak station, I'd think that cardinal and whatever corridor services would have more ridership, with a transfer there. Would be quicker than bus.
Last edited by nomis on Mon Feb 14, 2022 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total. Reason: removed immediate quote
 #1591803  by Red Wing
 
Many times there is a ton of padding between the 2nd to last and last station.
 #1591809  by BAR
 
Difficult to get info from Amtrak so I am asking here. I am planning a trip on the Cardinal next month with sleeper accommodations. Is there a full dining car on The Cardinal and if so, is dinner served eastbound out of Chicago?
Thanks for any info.

BAR
 #1591816  by Ken W2KB
 
Amtrak's current website says this for the Cardinal: "Meals on This Train
Eastbound: Dinner, Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner
Westbound: Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner, Breakfast" https://www.amtrak.com/cardinal-train and https://www.amtrak.com/onboard/meals-di ... ining.html
 #1591817  by BAR
 
Ken,
Thanks very much for your helpful and prompt reply. Sounds like I won't have to pack provisions for the trip.
BAR
 #1591822  by nkloudon
 
Flexible Dining service: Available exclusively for Private
room passengers.
Dinner: Available: 5:00 - 9:30 pm; board by 8:30 pm
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