• NYS High Speed Rail

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

  by O-6-O
 
Andy: Please take no offense but, can you say Albany,Schenectedy,
Amsterdam, Utica, maybe Rome, Syracuse,Rochester, Batavia and Buff.
It's where the customers are. Same reason The Central became what
the Erie was not. Cross lots thru the Tier just will never happen. IMO.

STEAM ON
/--OOO--~-oo--oo-

  by chnaus
 
Joe Bruno is your typical politician trying to reinvent the wheel and call it his idea,at taxpayer expense.

The Roch. D&C ran an article in April,93 that told of the impending visit of the X2000 on May 12,1993. This Swedish built train would be capable of 155 mph on lines with the proper conditions.

The article also announced that the Thruway Authority was negotiating "to win a huge federal grant study for mag-lev trains",running along the Thruway from Geneva to Victor or Geneva to Leroy (exits). Speeds could attain 215 mph.

Subsequent coverage by the tv stations in Roch clarified that it most likely would be built on the center median. This was a wonderfully devious idea to eliminate any property aquisitions and effectively gag all the nimbys.
The state and feds do not have to go by the local building codes and zoning restrictions.

This project was to be financed by Congress, which, in 1991 agreed to a 750 million expenditure for testing this technology.

Was this money ever spent ??
On mag-lev ??

What happened to the X2000 ??
Anyone here ever see it ??

  by SRS125
 
Most likley the money got tied up in the never passing alway late state budget :wink:

  by O-6-O
 
I did actually see this train at the now departed Syracuse train station
in Dewitt. All the pols and dignitaries were there speech making and
gladhanding. This train operated push/pull style as it could not lead
on its own power. The train also did not tilt on this demonstration which
was disappointing because this was THE feature which allowed the high
speed. It never ran over 79 while in New York as I understand it. I raced
east before the festivities ended to see it pass and I caught rounding the
curve east of Canastota heading towards Oneida at about MP 268.5.
I never really believed it would come into service and I haven't changed
my mind on seeing any High Speed service in my lifetime.

STEAM ON
/--OOO--~-oo--oo-
  by Matt Langworthy
 
JD, nice thought but the logistics would be a nightmare! If high speed rail were to be built, it would have to be a dedicated corridor. I can't see it being built along the roadbed of the Wate Level Route. I agree with other posts who say there are too many grade crossings, and you also have to consider the sidings, spurs, yards and interchanges on both sides of the mainline. The roadbed isn't graded for 200mph, either. Besides, with the current deficit spending in Washington, where's the money going to come from??? (Unless Halliburton builds it!)

Sorry, Andy117, I don't think the Southern Tier mainline will ever see regular passnger service again. Don't get me wrong- I'd love to see it. However, 0-6-0 is right when he mentions the lack of population in your area. NY state has lost alot of population to the Sun Belt- there was a time when Rochester had 300,000. Now it has barely 200,00. Likewise Elmira used to have a population of 50,000 and the Bingo-Endicott area used to have 200,000. Not now! The population shift actually began back in the '60s when manufacturing began to decline. EL certainly couldn't support passenger service under those conditions, so I don't see Amtrak or anyone else doing so now with even less potential customers. A scenic ride for sure, but not enough support to make it profitable.

  by ANDY117
 
Sadly. Even a shuttle between Elmira and Bingo is probably not going to happen.
  by J.D. White
 
Matt Langworthy wrote:JD, nice thought but the logistics would be a nightmare!
Actually it was a thought of semiconscious effort. I know continuous welded rail is approximately $1 million per mile ... don't know if the rail for high speed passenger service is different from Class 1. Bridges, be it overpasses or underpasses will be many. Think of the money involved! It blows me away!
  by s4ny
 
If there was anywhere in the US where high speed trains make sense it is between Dallas and Houston TX. Both metropolitan areas have over 3.5 million people and there is heavy travel between them. They are 240 miles apart with not much between them.

While it is a 35 minute flight from Houston to Dallas, auto transportation on each end of the short flight can easily make it a 2.5 hour trip.

The current President is a former Texas Governor and the state overwhelmingly supports the Republican party.

Yet Texas TGV failed!

http://theses.mit.edu/Dienst/UI/2.0/Des ... s/1995-297

What realistic hope is there for high speed rail in New York?
  by march hare
 
Former Texas resident here:

True, Dallas and Houston are large, and the countryside between them poses few engineering challenges. And true, HSR has failed so far. But several things are different down there.

First, both cities have "secondary" airports available with abundant gate space. Not so with NYC, or with many other cities in the northeast. Herb Kelleher, the president of Southwest Airlines, has pointed out that he could easily expand the number of flights from Hobby to Love Field, something that no one could say in our corner of the country.

Second, the area between those two cities is not very heavily populated. And the intermiediate cities are where HSR will get its best market share--places that are big enough to support a station, but which have crappy or nonexistent air service.

Both cities are also decades behind the rest of the US in terms of planning for (or even thinking about) growth. Neither city had functional light rail until a few years ago, and getting it built was a serious struggle. Both cities sprawl out on a scale not seen in the northeast, and the overall attitude toward planning is openly hostile. Sprawl just isn't seen as a big issue--sure, the city spreads out and gobbles up more and more land, but so what? Land is abundant. It's not like there are beautiful, scenic areas being spoiled with strip malls. The Houston-Dallas corridor didn't have anything beautiful to look at to begin with.

Texas being Republican doesn't help at all. The Texas congressional delegation has several prominent members who are outspoken (read that "rabid") opponents of ANY form of mass transit as a matter of principle. Tom Delay basically thinks any public investment in a system like that is tantamount to communism. Think I'm exaggerating? Listen to him on the subject of the Houston light rail system, which actually serves his district. It's like listening to the John Birch Society talk about fluoridating water back in the 50s. And he's not just an isolated nut-case, either. (He's not isolated, that is...)

That said, Albany-Buffalo is, IMHO, not a good candidate for dedicated high speed rail on the European or Japanese model. The population density isn't there, and what population there is, is declining.

The one good thing about the route would be the abundance of routing options--NY state owns an interstate highway, a canal, and large portions of an abandoned RR ROW, which could be used in concert with one another to lay out the line. Certainly, a large portion would end up in the Thruway median, or above it on piers. Combine that with an existing ROW that was built for four tracks and currently houses two, and you certainly have a head start on right of way acquisition.

Honestly, I think the best places in the US for a dedicated high speed rail system would be Florida (flat, lots of tourists who don't want to drive and lots of old people who shouldn't) and Ohio (flat, lots of medium sized cities spaced at distances that HSR is ideal for). But it will probably happen first in California.

  by drewh
 
BUF/NYC
2068 passengers/day - Jetblue - $93.82

ROC/NYC
1142 passengers/day - Jetblue - $95.55

SYR/ROC
511 passengers/day - Jetblue - $110.76

ALB/ROC
40 passgeners/day - Continental - $198.63
I'm not sure where you got these stats from, but Jetblue only has 6 daily flights NYC/BUF and 7 returning. There is no way with the type of equipment they operate that they could accomodate 2000+ passengers. Maximum capacity with A-320 and 13 flights would be 1950, and that of course assumes every flight is sold out.

Also, the passenger counts assume that everyone was heading to NYC. They could have been connecting at JFK to a number of other destinations across the country. This is the likely scenario.

Still, it would be interesting to see. Continental, also has frequent service to EWR, and US Air does to LGA. Again though, even removing connecting passengers, how many would head into Manhattan as opposed to other areas in the metro region.

It would be nice to see the service though. I for one as a frequent business traveller would use it, even if it was a 4 hour trip. Already travel with Acela up and down the corridor a lot and love it.