acelaphillies wrote:When I said the prices were impractical I wasn't exclusively talking about the Amfleets, more all $75 passenger cars as a whole. And while I do agree with you that the prices are also undesireable I still think they are not practical. Kyle, I'm not trying to bash you in any way so please don't take it that way. I am a big fan of your website and your modeling. It's great for you that you have been saving up for these Amfleets and that they are in your budget. But unfortunately for a lot of us it is just not practical right now to spend $750 on a train that doesn't even include a locomotive. I read your whole post and it made some good points but I still think that for a lot of modelers prices like this are not practical for their budget. And I also agree with green_elite_cab when he said that it is hard when they give you a 3 month limited run and you either have to spend a fortune all at once or pass them up. I like the way that Bachmann offers the Acela where they keep running it, making some improvements (like DCC) along the way. That way people can buy the train when they want it and they have the money. Like Kyle has said many times, Walthers spent a lot on the tooling. It seems like a waste to me to have a short run. It would seem more worthwhile if they put them out on the market for a while. It's not like they wouldn't sell after 3 months. Look at how old the previous Amfleets were and they sold up to the very end. It also gives people a chance to build up their fleet. On these new Amfleets phase IVb will be a very welcome addition to the lineup (assuming that it is done). Don't get me wrong, I will definitely buy some of these Amfleets and support the cause. But I will also try hard to find a good deal and do a lot of saving up between that time and now. Sorry for making you guys read so much. Haha
Sorry if I came across as harsh, not my intention. I didn't even see it as bashing so no offense taken
. I've always understood and sympathized with the sticker shock. If I didn't, I wouldn't bother responding. I've been paying close attention to Walthers' pricing over the years and so I've used that as a basis for speculating the potential cost of new Amfleets. That's how I "budgeted" for them but I have not met the target yet. This is
the one good thing about the phase IVb Amfleets not being released first for me in that it gives me additional time to meet that financial target to fill the quantities I'd like to have.
I've tried (perhaps not as vocally as I could ) to hint at others to brace for the sticker shock should a re-tooled ever be announced/released. I've noticed others had speculated that as well. Believe it or not, when I say the cars are "in my budget" that only means that I'm sacrificing stuff that is readily available today so that I can have what I really want later. This has been a multi-year effort. I've seen a few good deals on some great items that I've had to exercise extreme discipline and pass up on. What will "kill" me is if METRA and VRE Nippon Shayros, and re-tooled/improved Viewliners were announced (in general) in the same time frame. I'd find that to be a bitter-sweet announcement(s).
I initially misread what the two of you meant. I agree with both of you that $75 could be impractical for many smaller budgets. Before I started working, $75/car was not that practical for me either (even if it was RTR). Even $21.98/$24.98 per car was BARELY practical at the time.
If you look at the MSRP of the Bachmann Amfleets, they actually retail for $48 each. I have more of a problem with that than the Walthers cars because I think they're fairly crude in comparison (even with lighted interiors). The Bachmann cars were actually the more expensive ones and that was after tooling up a more crude model than what had previously been offered and their paint job (IMO) was lackluster in comparison to Walthers. Bachmann cost virtually twice as much as Walthers' older cars (but in their defense they had more features but personally they didn't "impress" me enough to switch over).
It's becoming harder and harder to compare Walthers and Bachmann for many reasons. One of the obvious reasons is that Bachmann has a huge hand in the entry-level market. They have an increasingly more generic appeal. Bachmann has the capacity to constantly crank out the same model without feeling the affect of their products not moving. Also compare how often Bachmann is announcing completely new products vs Walthers. Bachmann would have to stop running an existing line that they continually crank out in order to free up a production slot for a new product.
I'm sure there will be plenty of future re-issues of the Walthers Amfleet as it would be in their best interest to have the capability to do so. As long as the tool is in good shape they can always re-run it. Making the product repeatedly available will help re-coup costs and ultimately make a profit (they just may not regularly run it). I've read that in general, a successful first run covers your costs and its the second run that covers profits. It's limited run now but they could always bring it back out. They say this to let the market know that they've got other priorities for newer products and so they can't tie-up their production line slots with the same product that has a diminishing rate of return for years. They shorten the production window so that newer products can be brought to the market and so if you're unable or unwilling to jump on board this go-'round, you'll have to wait for the next run (whenever that may be).