Port Jervis Line - Graham Line changeover

One train can create a loooooooong line of stopped traffic at a station grade crossing

The traffic does that, not the train, like I said. Maybe all those drivers should have left their cars home?

Regarding the Otisville tunnel, When was it built? It was mentioned that the tunnel was bypassed and there was another ROW used at one time. Did the NJ Transit trains use this route or was this old Erie days?

Bobby S wrote:Regarding the Otisville tunnel, When was it built? It was mentioned that the tunnel was bypassed and there was another ROW used at one time. Did the NJ Transit trains use this route or was this old Erie days?

The original Southern Tier used to go over the mountain. If you ride the Tier, watch carefully out the south side of the train at CP Howells (Where the single track splits into the Single and the siding west of Middletown). You will see the embankment where the original Erie alignment used to divert. A stone arch bridge hidden behind the trees gives it away if you look carefully). The route used today is the "new" route. NJ Transit/Metro-North and Conrail never used the original track. It was ripped out in the Erie Lackawanna days. The date engraved in Otisville Tunnels western portal is 1908.

Its hard to see from in the train, but about half way west from Otisville Tunnel to Port Jervis there is another embankment hidden in the trees that slopes down on the south side of the rail where the original route re-joins the Southern Tier.

The tunnel was built as a similar project to the Lackawanna Cutoff. To reduce the climb in elevation and for a short-cut. Apparently both of the routes where used together into the 1950's or 60's until the original route was ripped out.

Another note about CP Howells. It was the location where the original Main Line through Goshen and Middletown joined with the Graham Line and split again to go over the mountain. Both of those alignments are now gone with only RoW remaining.

The tunnel was built as a similar project to the Lackawanna Cutoff. To reduce the climb in elevation

The Cutoff is very elevated in some places. It was my impression that it was built to create a shorter route than the Old Road, which went in a southwesterly direction as far as Washington, then turned sharply northwest towards Belvidere and Manuka Chunk before crossing the Delaware into Portland PA. There is a steep grade on the old Cutoff's right of way between Slateford Junction and the bridge across the Delaware in Columbia NJ.

The Graham Line, by comparison, is a good deal longer than the old Erie main line; its purpose indeed was to lower the grade.

Offhand I'm guessing the total rise and fall on the Lackawanna Cutoff is less than on the old route via Washington, and I suspect the maximum grade on the old line is more than the Cutoff's 0.55%.

Who exactly was responsible for shutting it down? Some posters say Conrail--others say Metro-North. I always thought that the decision to abandon was made long before MNCR.

Conrail wanted to abandon the line because it was duplicative, curvy and hilly - very unfriendly to freight trains. In order to do so, they had to get MTA's agreement and someone had to pay to construct the new stations at Harriman, Salisbury Mills, Campbell Hall and Middletown. I believe the funding for station construction and to upgrade the Graham Line to passenger train speeds was provided by NYSDOT. The project began before MNR came into existence, but MTA was very much involved in it from the beginning.

At the time, customers weren't happy about it at all...the stations were (are) out in the middle of nowhere, and therefore added to their comute times, since now they had a long drive to the station.

At the end of the NJT strike in April 1983, Conrail ran an eastbound freight train over the Main Line between Howells Jct and Newburgh Jct (the current CP Harriman) to clean the rust off the rails prior to resumption of service the next day. The train derailed in the center of Goshen, and as a result, the trains ran over the Graham on the first day of service after the strike. They stopped at the under-construction stations, which had usable platforms but no lighting or much of anything else. Within a few months (the exact date escapes me...I'll have to dig into the timetable file), service was moved over permanently and the line was never used again.

Jim

Erie-Lackawanna wrote:Conrail wanted to abandon the line because it was duplicative, curvy and hilly - very unfriendly to freight trains. In order to do so, they had to get MTA's agreement and someone had to pay to construct the new stations at Harriman, Salisbury Mills, Campbell Hall and Middletown. I believe the funding for station construction and to upgrade the Graham Line to passenger train speeds was provided by NYSDOT. The project began before MNR came into existence, but MTA was very much involved in it from the beginning.

At the time, customers weren't happy about it at all...the stations were (are) out in the middle of nowhere, and therefore added to their comute times, since now they had a long drive to the station.

At the end of the NJT strike in April 1983, Conrail ran an eastbound freight train over the Main Line between Howells Jct and Newburgh Jct (the current CP Harriman) to clean the rust off the rails prior to resumption of service the next day. The train derailed in the center of Goshen, and as a result, the trains ran over the Graham on the first day of service after the strike. They stopped at the under-construction stations, which had usable platforms but no lighting or much of anything else. Within a few months (the exact date escapes me...I'll have to dig into the timetable file), service was moved over permanently and the line was never used again.
Jim

Didn't the people in Chester and Goshen put up any fight to keep the old line intact? These two towns don't have any nearby stations on the Graham line.

Port Jervis wrote:Didn't the people in Chester and Goshen put up any fight to keep the old line intact? These two towns don't have any nearby stations on the Graham line.

Nothing organized or loud enough to be heard. Were they unhappy? yes. But it wasn't enough to stop the switch.

In 1984 ridership from Orange County was 1/10th what it is today. The number of riders who would have complained just couldn't have the numbers needed to be heard.

Jim

In 1984 ridership from Orange County was 1/10th what it is today

It can be argued that "ridership" back then was directly related to service levels. Compare two-car RDCs that ended their journey in Suffern with seven-car Comet V trains of today, plus no Secaucus transferring options (east or west).

I actually thought the idea of shuttle service from Suffern to PJ was not a bad idea at all. In other threads, it is mentioned that NJT is trying to cut fuel cost, I had the thought that if NJT only kept a few through trains during peak hours (say two regular expresses and the Harriman expresses) and had bi-hourly or tri-hourly shuttles off-peak, would it be any kind of a save?

It's not NJT's right to make such a change in Port Jervis service. If they were so inclined, let them screw their own taxpayers. Metro-North would be unlikely to permit such a downgrading of service for its customers, unless some unforeseen financial calamity struck - and we're a looooong way from the level of calamity you'd need before that could happen.

Jim

PullmanCo wrote:It can be argued that "ridership" back then was directly related to service levels.

It could be, but that would be a grossly incomplete argument. The population of Orange County has grown explosively in the past 15-20 years, and it is that growth that is largely responsible for the level of service that is operated on the Port Jervis Line.

Obviously, service levels and ridership are the chicken and the egg of commuter rail service planning. Without one, you don't get the other. But you need both - preferably each growing alongside the other - in order for the service to sustain itself.

Jim

My 2 cents...

NY MTA (pre-Metro North) actually ADDED service on the former Erie main during the summer of 1982. IIRC, the increased service was actually extensions of existing trains that originated/terminated at Suffern and Monroe; and the new service was extended to Middletown. Trains made all stops en route Sloatsburg-Tuxedo-Harriman-Monroe-Chester-Goshen-Middletown.

By the fall of 1983, all passenger service was gone, and the mainline was Out-Of-Service between Harriman and Middletown. Conrail owned the track; so once pax trains were gone, they proceeded to remove this line.

Maybe Jim "Erie Lackawanna" can narrow down his search for correct dates with this info ... as I don't have a period timetable handy; just a foggy memory.

The Metro-North Commuter Rail Division of MTA (the people that eventually became MNR on 1/1/83) instituted the Suffern-Middletown shuttle service on August 16, 1982. The service ran with RDC cars, and customers transferred to/from NJT service at Suffern.

When the Main Line was closed (I need to do some digging to get the date) the service moved over to the Graham Line, and eventually, the Middletown service was extended to Port Jervis. I seem to recall a period after the shift of service to the Graham Line where the shuttles continued to turn at Middletown (they used Red Onion siding to clear the main and turn signal traffic), but I could be wrong about that.

Jim