by Ron Newman
Years ago, the MBTA had a summer promotion in which any holder of any bus or subway pass could ride any commuter train for free on weekends.
Railroad Forums
Moderators: sery2831, CRail
livesteamer wrote: should the politicians starting working on ideas to encourage more and more ridership not just on the Greenbush line but all lines serving the South Shore?Actually, the only article I could find (from 1998), said that that Middleborough was immediately running ahead of projections (summary here:http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/boston/acce ... 01,%201998 ). The Globe Said:
in Feb 1998 the Boston Globe wrote: The Kingston line is carrying about 6,100 passengers each weekday, while the Middleborough line's weekday average is 5,200. Before the railroad reopened last fall, state transportation officials had projected ridership to climb gradually to 5,000 on each line over two years.So you can see that its a double shame Greenbush's 2133 riders (instead of 4200) soaked up South Station time slots and rolling stock and (structured) parking that could have served that line...with a lot of $$$ left over.
livesteamer wrote:Maybe the boats need to stop running or receiving subsidies. Maybe free parking at all CR stations. Maybe employers sponsored discount monthly passes.
BostonUrbEx wrote:1. Put a toll somewhere, 2. watch the numbers spike and stay up, 3. then watch pollution data decline as icing for the cake.
Marley wrote:I think tolls are needed on the expressway and every other freeway inside of 128. Every penny should be spent on expanding subways inside 128. The thought of waiting in tolls will bump those numbers up. It may even push up off peak ridership.Why is the default position here that Greenbush has to be "saved" by crippling the competing roads (with tolls) and Ferry (by "stop running")?
Arlington wrote:Why is the default position here that Greenbush has to be "saved" by crippling the competing roads (with tolls) and Ferry (by "stop running")?I agree. Although I feel the Southeast Expressway should be tolled because its motorists are the ones using the product of the big dig, and because that highway actually has significant operating expenses (the zipper lane), I don't feel it should be tolled just to justify another service. In order to get people off the roads and onto trains, make the train better, not the road worse. As far as the ferry goes, same deal. Don't punish people who enjoy the ferry for not taking the train. Again, if you want ferry passengers to prefer the train, make the train better than the ferry.
Arlington wrote:You don't have to be a "car nut" to take the other side. I'd call myself a "train nut" and still I'm asking:Because, as you've been moaning about over and over, we just spent half a billion dollars on it! What should be done now, in my opinion, is work to make it more efficient. That can be done by increasing utilization (somehow), decreasing costs, or both.
- How about enhacing Kingston and Middleborough by stopping Greenbush and diverting its frequencies?
Because, as you've been moaning about over and over, we just spent half a billion dollars on it! What should be done now, in my opinion, is work to make it more efficient. That can be done by increasing utilization (somehow), decreasing costs, or both.
livesteamer wrote:Often called "Throwing good money after bad," thinking this way is a mistake in business planning called "honoring sunk costs" (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_costs ... st_fallacy). Having wasted a half billion dollars, nobody is better off spending $X million per year to keep it running. Or we'd say that only 2133 people are notably better off running this line, while the 11,000 people on the rest of the Old Colony and the rest of the system are worse than they could be. The rational thing to do is to help the 11,000 (or for all I know 15,000 by now) on the other lines.Because, as you've been moaning about over and over, we just spent half a billion dollars on it! What should be done now, in my opinion, is work to make it more efficient. That can be done by increasing utilization (somehow), decreasing costs, or both.That is a great point. The 1/2 billion dollars are spent; the MBTA is not going to stop running the Greenbush line. So, how can it be made better? The politicians need to stop saying "we should not of spent the money" but now work to find solutions to make it better. IMHO, the low numbers on the Greenbush line will, in all probability, make the extension to the South Coast, unaffordable for the foreseeable future-15 years or more.
BostonUrbEx wrote:1. Put a toll somewhere, 2. watch the numbers spike and stay up, 3. then watch pollution data decline as icing for the cake.
CRail wrote:...I feel the Southeast Expressway should be tolled because its motorists are the ones using the product of the big dig, and because that highway actually has significant operating expenses (the zipper lane), I don't feel it should be tolled just to justify another service...I'm all in favor, but note what would really happen: this would triple demand for M'Boro/Kingston while only doubling demand for Greenbush. THe logical thing then would be to close Greenbush and give its service to M'Boro/Kingston. Why? Because 10 times as many car (expressway) users prefer the M'Boro/Kingston for every 1 who prefers Greenbush.
livesteamer wrote:I really think most folks are interested in a one seat ride. A transfer from train to ferry defeats that purpose. And, wouldn't there be more flexibility for a commuter to just drive to ferry? And since we are kind of brainstorming --why not just drop the ferry service? Won't that put more folks on the train?I can't quite find current ridership for the ferry. Closest I have is a quote saying 600,000 trips per year. Assuming all are 2-way, and all are on 260 weekdays, call it 1200 riders per day on the ferry (if wrong, this number is likely high). Apparently they get about a $4 per trip subsidy.
F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:Easiest way to encourage ridership is to NOT, under any circumstances, go forward with the proposed plan to widen Route 3 to eight lanes from the Braintree split to Route 18 in Weymouth and six lanes from Route 18 to Routes 53/3A in Kingston [snip]...Agreed. But one thing about induced demand...these roads never lack for customers (and therefore political support).
The Kingston/Plymouth line parallels it within 5 miles or less (much, much less about half the time) the whole length of the widening and potential interstate upgrade, as do half of the stations on the Greenbush line (Weymouth Landing, East Weymouth, West Hingham, and Greenbush stations being dead-on straight shots). The very reason these two lines exist is to yank snarled traffic off of 3 and the state highways that feed it. ...
The BS with the towns over "give me luxuries or I NIMBY you to death" ought to be enough of a giveaway that the corridor doesn't need it bad enough to take seriously yet. Maybe the state made the same mistake with Greenbush initially, leading with capacity before demand instead of making sure the route was pre-primed for it. But the way out of that mistake isn't repeating it all over again with Route 3, it's making damn sure you're getting every inch of upside out of existing service before making any further life-altering changes to the area.