PanAm Train sat unlocked, idling for 15 hours in Manchester

In today's Union Leader- Official: "Idling freight train posed little threat to public"

http://tinyurl.com/2jsc63

i like how the FD climbed aboard they should also get a tresspassing charge

I know this isn't completely on topic, but inspired by the article. The FRA official quoted mentions that the train was left idling to prevent loss of air, which could cause the brakes to release and allow the train to roll freely.

Is this really a possibility? I don't know anything specific about how trains work. However, I have a commercial driver's licence (yes I know, totally different from being an engineer, but bear with me) and air brakes are a standard design on commercial vehicles; it's not new techology by a long shot. When any motor vehicle equipped with air brakes loses air pressure past a certain point, the springs held back by that air apply automatically to the wheel, preventing any motion; the only way to move a truck or bus against a spring brake is to lay on the accelerator, and even that won't get you far.

Are trains not equipped with a similar system? How is it possible to rely on air lines alone to hold a train in place? How are the brakes applied to rolling stock when there's no locomotive there to fill the air lines?

kitn1mcc wrote:i like how the FD climbed aboard they should also get a tresspassing charge

That will never happen nor legally can it happen. The fire chef if the circumstance warrants it; has the right to check anything out private or not, to ensure the public’s safety. If he saw it fit, he could have ordered Pan Am to shut the engines down immediately or get it moving. In this case they found nothing wrong and there for didn’t have any safety issues; at which point the fire department is powerless.

What I can't understand is... why they didn’t just stop the train in the Manchester Yard.

Well, you are for the most part correct. The original poster just wasn't overly clear. When a train is parked the engineer makes a full service brake application (reduction) on the train, this is probably what he was referring to.

You are correct in that the air itself is what releases the brakes, and that the loss of air sets the brakes up. The problem is, once the engines stop pumping air to the train, the brakes will remain set only until they bleed off (the brake cylinder pressure) because they aren't being maintained at the below 90 lbs level of the equalizing resevoir (of the locomotives). Then the brakes will release eventually. It takes a long time though for the brakes to bleed off on their own, some times weeks.

But, when you leave a train you are supposed to put enough hand brakes on the cars (and on each locomotive) to prevent a train from moving should the air brakes be released. Some railroads have a set minimum that you need to apply, some say "sufficient" and leave room for judgement.

If the train was on flat ground, it wouldn't be impossible, but nearly for hoodlums to move it. It would require knocking off every hand brake, bleeding every damn brake on every car if the train brakes were released, and being able to turn the generator field on, have a reverser, etc. and so on.

That said, leaving a train standing for 15 hours is pitiful even if legal, and entirely too common on Guilford.

jlarose wrote:I know this isn't completely on topic, but inspired by the article. The FRA official quoted mentions that the train was left idling to prevent loss of air, which could cause the brakes to release and allow the train to roll freely.

Is this really a possibility? I don't know anything specific about how trains work. However, I have a commercial driver's licence (yes I know, totally different from being an engineer, but bear with me) and air brakes are a standard design on commercial vehicles; it's not new techology by a long shot. When any motor vehicle equipped with air brakes loses air pressure past a certain point, the springs held back by that air apply automatically to the wheel, preventing any motion; the only way to move a truck or bus against a spring brake is to lay on the accelerator, and even that won't get you far.

Are trains not equipped with a similar system? How is it possible to rely on air lines alone to hold a train in place? How are the brakes applied to rolling stock when there's no locomotive there to fill the air lines?

Gosh... the Union Leader really loves this story. They can't seem to get enough of it!

http://tinyurl.com/2qtdkc

I wish they'd make up their minds: was the situation a danger or not? They've waffled a little bit. I do like the second response posted after the article.

They should just let the story go, after three days it's not news anymore.

GRSguy13 wrote:They should just let the story go, after three days it's not news anymore.

Hey, it's New Hampshire. News takes longer to get "old" there, at least when I lived there.

i bet the batteries on the LOCOs were not the best as well, i wonder what they would have done if the mechanical dept had to trump thru there yard

NRGeep wrote:

GRSguy13 wrote:They should just let the story go, after three days it's not news anymore.

Hey, it's New Hampshire. News takes longer to get "old" there, at least when I lived there.

It looked like that paper, the Union Leader, was still trying to drag it out about an incident in Hooksett(?) that happened a few days before. The mayor of Manchester basically said "We're done with it folks!"

kitn1mcc wrote:i bet the batteries on the LOCOs were not the best as well, i wonder what they would have done if the mechanical dept had to trump thru there yard

It was NS power. There was no mechanical reason not to shut the engines down. Most, but not all NS power have an Autostart system installed. This system will shut down idling locomotives after 5 minutes so long as the train is stopped. It will then restart them as needed to maintain trainline pressure and in winter months, to keep the water and oil warm. The system monitors battery voltage and if it's low, the system will not shut the loco down. The loco shown in the newspaper is an old ex Conrail Dash 8. I have seen very few of them retrofitted with Autostart systems and they are never ordered fromt he factory with them. The fact it stayed running is normal.

And yes, a properly tied down train with handbrakes on all units and some cars (how many is dictated by weight and grade, the area the train was stopped is flat so it would have taken few. In fact, the engines alone would have held the train). Having handbrakes applied could have allowed all the engines to be shutdown, but something nobody here has mentioned is the FRA 4 hour brake test rule. Any train that is "off air" (in this instance, no loco's running would qualify as off air) for more then 4 hours must get a complete FRA Class I brake test. Something that on a 90 car train would take several hours. That is why the engines were not shut down.

As for leaving the train in Nashua. Nashua is between milepost CPN9 and CPN 10. Eve street, where the train was is north of 29. Your talking almost 2 hours away. Leaving a train that far back would mean more then likley having to make the empty coal train (if the crew is flipping the trains) die somewhere else along the main line. It's normal practice to get trains as far north as practical when possible.

The issue at hand is not common. But it happens. There is no epidemic. There was no danger posed to anyone. Nobody on here let alone the majority of the public even know what is involved in getting that train moving. There are tricks engineers can do that would make even having an operators manual useless to "steal" that train. It takes alot more then a reverser and being able to read. Should the dispatcher (district 2) have allowed the crew to stop there? i would'nt. But at the same time, they were not planning on waiting that long to recrew it.

If you buy a home next to or near an active railway, you have no right to complain about noise, fumes and long trains blocking crossings. I really don't feel bad for those people. It's an isolated incident. Things happen. I am not going to get mad at my neighbor if he gets his house painted once every few years and i smell paint fumes. Get on with your lives people.

This story is like the Energizer bunny:

http://tinyurl.com/29vhhq

damn if I knew that I would have been out there taking pictures

These just need to stop, but it's New Hampshire and I guess Manchester isn't having many crimes lately

and what is it rag on the railroad week in New Hampshire or something?

NV290 is right on,