OPINION: Railroads??

Ok, I have heard a lot of history teachers (at my high school) talking to their classes (Since they are talking about the Pullman strike currently) saying that it may only be 10-20 years and we may not see the railroads at all?? I was walking by one such class (I am friends with the teacher) and heard her verbally bash the railroads for being out of date. I stepped in and fully corrected her (in front of the class). I basically said railroads built this country and there are several materials that the public will never allow on the US Interstates, that the railroad hauls. Not to mention the railroads haul tons of coal or natural gas in a single train for power plants......

So, to be really blunt about this: Are the railroads dying?

Contact the Association of American Railroads (AAR), they have all sorts of info and statistics on what the railroads haul and how much they are needed, and probably they will send you stuff for free. Tell them what happened and they may actually have handouts geared for educators.

I'm actually not aware of railroads hauling natural gas to powerplants but I'll agree about the coal.

And you are on the right trail - since deregulation the railroads have become much more efficient and are hauling a lot more freight - on a lot of railroads there are problems with capacity. You will never see the return of railroads serving every little mom-and-pop lumber yard and feed mill like 100 years ago but they are far from dying.

Ok, thank you. I was hoping after I spoke up, I was not wrong. but, I will contact them, thank you.

Had same issue with my 8th Grade American History Teacher. They said railroads were dead and no longer used.

In a polite way I said that they were dead wrong. Every head in class pivioted 45 degrees and in unison swiviled back to the teacher. Teacher stood there dumbfounded and wished for an explanation.

30 years ago railroads were in the toliet, but the amount of goods hauled daily on United States railroads is more than what was hauled in WW2.

Next thing got truckers angry.

If anything the trucking industry will probably die soon or else diminish.
The rules are trying to be changed so truckers can work more sleep less and that spells big trouble. After one minute (I think) a train will stop if there is no action from engineer. If a trucker's energy drink wears off (need to drink the to stay awake) and they go to sleep, nothing except friction is going to stop their load of gasoline from barreling through the whole trailer park.

One or two people can haul 200 hundred trailers thanks to intermodal service. Also those trailer trains as well. Figuring 100 cars and two trailers on each. One person can haul only one trailer.

Except those of you who drive those OPEC friendly cars on a daily basis when was the last time you felt safe driving down an interstate with tractor trailers all around?

The teacher "saw the light" and apologized.

I wonder if this teacher also knows that one average stack train has at least 250 containers. (Conservative number here)

Through Cajon Pass we average 60+ stack trains in a 24 hr window.

250 containers times 60 = 15,000. THAT'S IN ONE DAY!!!!!

Hmmm.... I wonder if this teacher would rather sit in rush hour traffic with 15,000 extra trucks on the highway in just one area.????

This is NOT even counting manifest trains, ie coal, lumber, LPG, plastics, frozen foods, UPS packages, etc...

Sounds to me that this ''teacher'' needs a re-fresher course in ECONOMICS 101.
My .02$


I also think it would be interesting to figure the average amount of stack trains running at any given moment in this country and figure the total amount of containers. I bet the number will exceed over 200,000.

I totally agree. Trains are better in every circumstance. Heavy loads, long loads, carry materials that are not allowed to be carryed on a major US highway (ie big and wide loads). Thanks guys for your input.

U-haul- Thats the same thing. All my peers looked at me like i was the plague, and the teacher looked amazed after I finished....

Why does the majority of the public feel against railroads? Are they really out of date?

I just looked at the CSX website. and it claims that rail is 3x more efficient than trucking!! That's pretty good.

I find it amazing that...

a) your teachers (plural) are really that dense, though I see it sometimes, too...

b) more importantly, that either of you two chuckleheads could simply walk by a classroom (where you might be "friends" with the teachers) and disrupt a lesson by popping off, right or no.

Strange things afoot for your schools. Come on down to my school for a couple of days. Good times all around.

Dave Becker

Dave, not to be rude but yes. I will stand up and correct a teacher if the information the teacher presents to my fellow peers is wrong. I am a railfan and I do not appreciate when teachers have no clue on what they are talking about. I mean I like teachers and all, but they are only human. They can correct a student if he/she gets a wrong answer, and I will politely jump in and correct them. (Politeness is the key ) I will never rudely tell a teacher, just very polietly jump in and ask if I may present a better point of view, than the one they just presented.

James, you better learn some respect if you expect to get anywhere in life. That includes "standing up to teachers." There is a right way and a wrong way to discuss things. The proper way to go about that would have been to approach the teacher after class and offer something like, "Excuse me, I heard what you said about railroads, and I have some facts to the contrary... can we talk about them?"

Your enthusiasm for the subject could be misinterpreted as something else.

-otto-

Ok, I have heard a lot of history teachers (at my high school) talking to their classes (Since they are talking about the Pullman strike currently) saying that it may only be 10-20 years and we may not see the railroads at all?? I was walking by one such class (I am friends with the teacher) and heard her verbally bash the railroads for being out of date. I stepped in and fully corrected her (in front of the class). I basically said railroads built this country and there are several materials that the public will never allow on the US Interstates, that the railroad hauls. Not to mention the railroads haul tons of coal or natural gas in a single train for power plants......

The story is suspect from the beginning. "A lot" of teachers are talking. Then, one such class, where you are "friends" with the teacher. Then you go on to babble aimlessly about what railroads can and do carry that can't be carried via the roads.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

You go through a number of flawed pieces of logic, and then tell a story about barging into a classroom and correcting an adult. I don't believe a word of it.

This, of course, is separate from the point that had this happened in my high school, or others like it, you'd be at home for 5 days where you could post incessantly about pictures of locomotives you just saw on a website and had to comment on. You'd be suspended, and likely on probation for the rest of the year.

So, now that we are past the rather improbable classroom disruption, you have the ignorance to ask the question, are railroads dying?

Simply put, are you kidding? Have you done more than look at pictures? Have you missed all of the PR about how carloadings are up across the country? In the New York forum, one railroad.net user linked to an article about some bridges that look yucky, and it talks about how the nation's railroads are in fine shape. That's just one example from today. You can't shake a stick around here without seeing that railroads are not dying, but in fact, are going through a period of renewal, fueled by container traffic and hours-of-service laws for truckers and limited by few things, among them, a serious decline in rail miles left after downsizing. I'm oversimplifying (I don't want to haggle over where the pinch points are, or where the traffic is up, please) but you should get the point.

To finish, I'm not sure we've seen an intelligent post from you, between UFO's and fomaing over pictures. Perhaps Otto et al. should put the training wheels back on you for a while until you get it under control. But please, no more made-up stories.

Dave Becker

James, how did you make out with the AAR?

Hi Dave--
I think your first post got the point across that you were trying to make, and did so in a civilized manner. The second post on the same subject goes overboard into trash talk, for me.

If a post seems dubious to me, I either answer it like you did the first time, or I ignore it completely. Insinuation will get you a long way--I found some humor in your other answer. Out-and-out name calling usually brings the hammer down. I don't think you want to be seen as the forum bully, do you?

I'm not concerned by it, honestly. I've had some good PM conversations with others here that address the same thing, and feel the same way. They know who they are.

Simply put, everything that I said in the second post is the truth, between the perspective on teaching and discipline (after a quick check, it seems like James' school district would react the same way) and his postings.

Believe me, Alloy, check out the posting history. I'm not the only one who sees it or says anything.

Dave Becker

Hey Guys ...

EJ seems like a good kid, thin skined, with remarkable RR knowledge for not having any road experence. Lock the thread and disipline him in private!

Dave cant lock it, but..... maybe i should.