On Equipment Shortages.....and National Preparedness

Folks are missing several points here...

Where did reserve equipment come from? Only rarely was it first line gear. More usually, the Century or the Broadway or (insert your RR flagship train here) was re-equipped, then their cars were handed down the line.

As far as Western roads having extra sections in the HW era go, what piece of history are folks not reading here???? Dubin has a picture of SEVEN SECTIONS of the California Limited (which was the all time record) readying departure in Los Angeles for Chicago in the 20s. Dubin also has a picture of FOUR SECTIONS of the Gold Coast Limited again readying departure in Los Angeles for Chicago in the 20s.

In the streamline era, look at how late multiple tiered trains ran on Western lines: Up on the GN, the Western Star of 1955 had the 1947 hand-me-downs from the Empire Builder. Many of the cars built for the 1939 and 1941 editions of the City of Los Angeles eventually saw service on the Los Angeles Limited.

We've talked in this forum before about Amtrak having to look at life-cycle re-equiping of its fleet. Amfleet and SL1 are aging. Period. The issues on the table are:
- Were not the passenger fleets sold and leased back under Warrington as part of "self-sufficiency?" When do those leases die?
- Who's going to sell the Congress on new capital appropriations to upgrade the fleet?
- Will the cars pass Amtrak's own PC-1/2 inspections as they keep aging? What are the costs of capital to maintain them?
- Where is the "uneconomical to maintain further" point? Even Pullman encountered this ...

Thoughts for reflection.

John Perkowski

maybe you are missing the point...

you mention specific (second and third tier) trains relying on older equipment seasonally. Specifically older heavyweight-sleepers and diners.

You then mention that something needs to be done about the amfleets and S1's.

Well, (s1, amfleet1's) are only in excess of 30 years old

The freights kept their older sleepers to use when need be.

They were not as nice as later model pullmans but they did the job and made their host rr's money.

This was equipment in some cases built in the 20's and 30's which lasted into the 70's.

And it could have lasted longer had amtrak not come around and cut off about 2/3's of america's trains

Point is, nowadays with HEP and roller bearing trucks, cars can be made to last longer given just a little care. I dont see any reason a car could not last 50 years, especially a sleeper or diner.

Spend some money on interiors and mechanical overhauls (truck work, air conditioning work, plumbing) every 15 or so years and there is no reason a car cannot last indefinetly, within reason.

This is why it is absurd that amtrak let its fleet of heritage equipment rot away and sold it off. The toilet issue was I believe a scapegoat.

Amtrak needs to make better use of what they have

and SHOULD have made better use of what they HAD...

(F40's, heritage fleet, etc.)

I largely agree with Mr. Nip's remarks above, I believe that Amtrak should have held onto their heritage fleet sleepers and coaches as well. The
Budd built carbodies should have some years left in them. They could
have spruced up the interiors, work over the heat and AC equipment and
replaced the parts that needed to be replaced.
Seems to me that it would be cheaper to fix these cars up than to buy
more brand new cars at today's costs.
Another thought, even today, passenger cars are being withdrawn and
sold for scrap. Case in point, the 1100 class MU cars with Metro-North, I
could envision a total rehab of these cars for locomotive hauled corridor
type trains. The electrical systems would have to be modified for 480
volt operation as compared with 600 volts today, the seats would have to
come out and be replaced with comfortable, medium distance type seats.
Metro-North/New York State spent a considerable amount of money a few
short years ago to completely rehab these and I see no reason that with
proper maintenance, these cars could go at least another 15 or more
years. They might not be stainless steel or the best cars ever built but
they are here and in reasonable condition.
The former Pennsylvania Railroad "Congo" coaches were rehabed a few
years ago, then they were replaced by other cars, why?, I do not know but they were also Budd built of stainless steel construction and had retention toilets installed as well.
Today, we have little or no reserve fleets and every car that there is not
an immediate need for gets surplused, set aside and either stored in bad
order until the homeless or locals have destroyed or gets stripped and
sold for scrap. Nothing seems to get stored in a safe manner and in good
order just in case they might need it somewhere. Costly, yes but still
cheaper than buying a huge order of new equipment.
Noel Weaver

I learned an important life lesson time and time again during my marriage: In spite of what LSW often wanted, once something was done, it was done, and rarely if ever can it be undone.

REALITY CHECK: The pre-1964 fleet is gone. It's not coming back, now or ever. We may want it as a reserve, but that is just not happening. Quit crying about the spilt mik; it doesn't address the issue at hand.

Now, in an emergency, Amtrak has the option of leasing a few cars. From the AAPRCO website, here are the current cars available for charter:

6 coaches
10 lounges (2 domes)
1 dining car
10 sleepers
16 sleeper lounges.

(With malice aforethought, I omitted business/office cars from the above).

So let's get on with this discussion in real time, looking forward.

If we talk of life-cycle re-equipping the current fleet, and we are approaching the age to do that, then Amtrak needs to have a concurrent discussion of "what to do" with the current fleet. I submit comprehensive overhauls and use as reserve capacity both for seasonal operations as well as emergeny operations would be a good use of feddiebucks.

Of course, the paragraph above is premised on Amtrak having some form of ownership over the fleet. If, indeed, Warrington sold the fleet and then leased it back, Amtrak will have little if any control over its fate come "overhaul or condemn" time.

John Perkowski

Under the sale/leaseback terms, does Amtrak have some kind of right to buy the equipment back at nominal rates when the term of the lease is over?