Oil train disaster in Lac-Mégantic, Québec 07-06-2013

From Reuters - I haven't seen this reported to this detail anywhere else. This sounds like the closest to a cause we have yet:

"We shut down the engine before fighting the fire," he told Reuters in an interview. "Our protocol calls for us to shut down an engine because it is the only way to stop the fuel from circulating into the fire."

and

Lambert said once the blaze was out, the Nantes fire service contacted Montreal, Maine & Atlantic Railway. "We told them what we did and how we did it," he said.

Asked whether there had been any discussion about the brakes, he replied: "There was no discussion of the brakes at that time. We were there for the train fire. As for the inspection of the train after the fact, that was up to them."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/ ... 5L20130708" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Possibly the most disturbing part of that Reuters article:

Reuters wrote:Andre Gendron, 38, lives on a wooded property next to the railyard in Nantes. He said he was burning a campfire outside his trailer on Friday night when he heard the fire trucks.

"About five minutes after the firemen left, I felt the vibration of a train moving down the track. I then saw the train move by without its lights on," Gendron told Reuters.

"I found it strange its lights weren't on and thought it was an electrical problem on board. It wasn't long after that I heard the explosion. I could see the light from the fires in Lac Megantic."

They're also saying that this could be "...Canada's deadliest rail accident since 1956."

MEC407 wrote: “If the operating locomotive is shut down, there’s nothing left to keep the brakes charged up, and the brake pressure will drop finally to the point where they can’t be held in place any longer,” Burkhardt said.

This sounds backwards. Normally to release the brakes, one needs to *raise* the air pressure, and not lower it. Or am I missing something here?

JackRussell wrote:

MEC407 wrote: “If the operating locomotive is shut down, there’s nothing left to keep the brakes charged up, and the brake pressure will drop finally to the point where they can’t be held in place any longer,” Burkhardt said.

This sounds backwards. Normally to release the brakes, one needs to *raise* the air pressure, and not lower it. Or am I missing something here?

Rail cars need to have fully charged reservoirs for the brakes to apply (keep applied). This air pressure is what forces the brake piston to extend, applying the brakes. The air used to release the brakes equalizes - or in effect counteracts - the reservoir air, thereby releasing the brakes. If the reservoir air bleeds off and is not maintained, the brakes will release on their own.

Does anyone know definitively what happened with the power during and after the derailment? I've heard many different stories, theories, and gross speculation, but have seen no photos of where the units ended up.

Kevin,
Thanks for the clarification.... it's amazing how misinformation spreads around.

My prayers and sympathies with all those affected. Given that we have oil trains traveling through Winthrop I feel fortunate that this didn't happen in my own home town.

The engine's own brakes can be applied independently of the train's brakes by using the Independent Brake handle. This works almost directly off the main reservoir and air compressor, unlike the brakes on a rail car. If the air compressor stops pumping, the air will eventually leak off and the locomotive's brakes will release. Bumping into the Independent Brake handle while fighting a fire in the dark could also move the handle to the release position That's why they make hand (and parking) brakes.
The reservoirs on the cars can only be filled when the cars' brakes are released and the brake pipe has sufficient pressure. If the brakes are applied on the train, eventually the air in their brake cylinders will leak off and the brake shoes will no longer hold their wheels from moving.
Were the air brakes on just 1 locomotive all that was keeping the parked train from moving?
(There are more modern and exotic brake systems that get around some of these limitations.)

There was this eyewitness account a few days ago:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/07/06 ... evacuated/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

“The train went by at 75 miles an hour, it was going like a crazy train,” said resident Gilles Fluet, who had just called it a night and left the popular Musi-Café shortly after 1 a.m. Saturday with his two friends when he saw the freight train barrelling down the tracks that cut through town.

“The wheels were smoking, because the brakes were overheating. I said to my friends, ‘Run, because that’s not going to make the turn. It’s going to crash.’ We could see they were all tankers carrying oil.”

My Thoughts exactly......Not trying to jump to conclusions but I work for the railroad and we are not allowed to rely on air alone to hold the train....if the train is left unattended for any amount of time without anyone on the controlling unit it has to be tied down with a sufficient number of handbrakes and tested to make sure they can hold the whole train, of all the rules of the FRA you would think this would be one they control but its left up to the rr's to decided how to tie the trains down....again maybe the train was tied with handbrakes and then tampered with...My heart goes out to the families, the town, and the emergency responders for risking their lives, a very sad situation.

Crazy, one big perfect storm.

I originally was thinking vandalism until the story came out about the fire department. One has to ask, if the quotes are to be believed, why would the Fire Department call the railroad only after the fire is extinguished? Even if there was a discussion after the fact regarding the brakes, unless the railroad had someone there, it would have been too late by the time someone got on the scene to inspect the fire damage.

Which leads to the next story about smoking brakes. What did the eyewitnesses see? The independent brakes smoking because the air brakes were released and there was not a sufficient number of hand brakes applied? Did they see the independent and a few hand brakes smoking? I highly doubt the FD kicked off the hand brakes on all 5 locos...

One thing is for sure, I think we can assume the practice of one man crews is over with, whether it is at fault or not. Secondly, I fully expect to see locomotive cab locks as a mandatory FRA requirements. Third, I think you will see a review of local fire service and railroad communication. Forth, a full review of leaving trains (and definitely key trains) on the mainline unattended. Having worked for the RR, I think all of these are necessary to review.

Again, crazy and my prayers to all those effected.

The Reuters article quoted by tytrain has got it - the Nantes fire service shut down the only running loco in order to put out an on-board fire, thus releasing the brakes, and in addition the runaway was witnessed by a trackside camper, so there's little doubt left imho.

I leave it up to the experts to decide whether the operating practices of the MMA were a contributing factor; when I started following this stuff, freight trains had five man crews.

pbm

Are there still indications of a post-derailment collision with propane tank cars at a siding in Lac-Megantic?

The Nantes fire chief is denying that his crew played any role in the disaster.

From the National Post:

National Post wrote:In an interview Monday, Patrick Lambert told the National Post that his men extinguished an engine fire aboard the oil-laden train late Friday night and left the train in the care of two representatives of the Montreal, Maine & Atlantic Railway.
. . .
The MMA employees “inspected the train with us,” he said. “MMA told the leading fire officer that everything was okay, the fire was out, everything was secure, you guys can leave.”

The locomotive’s power remained shut off, and the fire officer advised the railway employees that it could not be moved until the ruptured line was repaired.

“When we left, there was a police officer and two employees of MMA [at the scene],” he said.
. . .
Preliminary data recovered from the locomotive’s data recorder indicate the train was travelling at 101 kilometres per hour when it derailed in the heart of downtown at about 1:15 a.m., Transportation Safety Board investigator in charge, Donald Ross, said in an interview Monday.

[note: 101 KPH = 63 MPH]

Read more at: http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/07/08 ... -disaster/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The fact that the Fire Department shutdown the locomotive isn't surprising to me. I attended a PAR-sponsored training event for first responders and shutdown procedures and the different means of doing so were explicitly covered. That in of itself seems routine to me.

What happened after that, earlier questions about hand brake applications, and later questions about a possible collision after derailment with some propane tank cars remain to be understood.

It is terrible that such a beautiful place, likely with many wonderful people would have to experience such a terrible disaster. In this day and age one would think these kinds of incidents simply wouldn't happen anymore.

newpylong wrote:One thing is for sure, I think we can assume the practice of one man crews is over with, whether it is at fault or not. Secondly, I fully expect to see locomotive cab locks as a mandatory FRA requirements. Third, I think you will see a review of local fire service and railroad communication. Forth, a full review of leaving trains (and definitely key trains) on the mainline unattended. Having worked for the RR, I think all of these are necessary to review.

Mr. Long, whether the crew consist was one man, two, of the five when we both hired on with the industry. If the crew has been released from duty and transported to a hotel, it matters not their size.

Now the point made that the practice of leaving trains, especially with HAZMAT ladings, unattended is very likely to be reviewed.

Finally, all anyone with a stake in the railroad industry can hope for is that the Canadian accident investigative agency does their job, possibly the NTSB will be invited to join in one cpacity or the other. Mr. Burkhardt and his insurers certainly hope that is the case.