Official "Maple Leaf" Thread

[Ken V]

Food service is provided by VIA in Canada, and Amtrak in the US. All the American or Canadian food is removed from the snack car at the customs stop before entrance into the other country.

That is idiotic.

I agree. I've heard of this before and (if true) never understood the rationale behind it. I have never taken the Maple Leaf but have taken the (lamented) International many times and the snack car on that train didn't change foodstock at the border. I suppose there could be an obscure link to the fact that the Amtrak/VIA International could not offer alcoholic beverages to the patrons.

[Jersey_Mike]

Food service is provided by VIA in Canada, and Amtrak in the US. All the American or Canadian food is removed from the snack car at the customs stop before entrance into the other country.



That is idiotic.

NO!!!! The VIA Food is FAR BETTER (and 30% cheaper) than the Amtrak food. Also, the attendents are nicer and nicer looking. Keep your wallet closed until you cross the border cause then the eatin gets good.

[ryanov]

It may be a legal thing/carrying food through customs, etc. Who knows?

My ex took the Maple Leaf, and I've taken it home from Schenectady. It runs into trouble between SDY and Albany on the single tracked section, often being held 30-45 mins there. At least that's how it used to be. I don't think it stayed that late though.

[Gilbert B Norman]

It is most definitely a "legal thing", Mr. Novosielski - at least insofar as alcohol is concerned.

Since the Maple Leaf is a VIA train while in Canafa, as distinct from the Adirondack and the Cascade which are Amtrak trains operating in Canada, it makes all the sense for each road to supply their own F&B. If the Amtrak foodstuffs (excluding alcohol) were to be sold on the VIA portion of the trip, then all the supplies would have to be inventoried at the interchange point (Buffalo), then "sold' to VIA. It is simply more expedient to "strip' the car and allow VIA to stock it with their own F&B.

Alcohol brings on the plethora of problems of taxation and possibly even potential for civil liability (dramshop, whatever).

On the Amtrak trains in Canada, if there are even liquor sales, it is from a supply of "Canadian liquor'. That is what was done aboard "party zone train" The Montrealer where be assured no one was about to wait until the train arrived in East Alburgh to "party down".

All told I must disagree with my colleagues, it is a wise decision even if not evident to the average customer.

[Noel Weaver]

The food service cars are not stripped, they are padlocked and sealed at
the border going into Canada.
Don't know what the case is now but it use to be that no food or drinks
were sold on the Adirondack while in Canada either, again the supplies
were locked and sealed. Don't know today if they still do that or not.
Noel Weaver

[GeorgeF]

The food service cars are not stripped, they are padlocked and sealed at the border going into Canada.

I was on the Maple Leaf on May 5, going to Toronto. The car is in use on both sides of the border; it's just what's sold, and the attendant, which is different. Good thing it wasn't padlocked - I was in the business class section of that car! It was an ex-club with 2 and 1 seating. I didn't note whether the Amtrak foodstuffs were removed or not; but the Via food was loaded after crossing the border.

[Raakone]

The only thing that was "changed" at the border on the International was alcoholic beverages. This is due to laws on both sides of the border about where the sales and liquor taxes are paid (and the sales tax on the liquor tax). I even heard from somewhere that the only employees who weren't changed at the border on that train were the attendants in the cafe car, may not be true, and the menu was listed in both currencies)

I guess that International and Maple Leaf use(d) different rules for food, except for alcoholic beverages. Maybe there was an agreement between VIA and MDot for the International (the US side was a state-supported train)

~Ra'akone

[Robert Paniagua]

I'bve been on the Maple Leaf a few times myself, and I think to seem that the Canadian food is better tasting than ours, it seems that they have more choices and beverage brands that we don't carry.

[AgentSkelly]

I ride the Maple Leaf a few time a year and I find it pretty reliable all the way to Toronto from AMS or SDY

I like the food on both sides of operation, I don't notice a quality difference really, but rather a different variety when operated by VIA.

The two times I have encoutered delays, one of them was a 10 minute stop between ROC and SYR on the return back to SDY. The other was back in March when a snowstorm hit downstate so the 63 was an hour late, which not a big deal, because in most cases the time padding in the schedule for customs is very generous and you arrive on time in Niagara Falls, ON for customs and run on time to Toronto most of the time.

[Silverliner II]

I've ridden the Maple Leaf 1 and 1/2 times.

The 1 was a round-trip from NYP to Toronto and back again in February of 2004. The consist was all Amfleet I with the cafe/business class car head out, followed by 4 coaches.
The trip was on time until departing Niagara Falls, Ontario, when we got delayed an hour by CN signal problems. Once moving again, we stayed an hour down all the way into Aldershot, where I bailed early and caught a GO bus to Hamilton.
The return trip was on time until leaving Niagara Falls, NY when we got talked by a stop signal and proceeded at restricted speed (it proved to be a banner test, as we suddenly stopped, and some moments later, I saw a CSX official removing the banner and toss it in the back of his truck). We then ran about 45 minutes down for the remainder of the trip to NYP.

The 1/2 was a one-way trip from Toronto to NYP (completing a circle involving Air Canada and a ride on the last Budd set on VIA's Ocean). The consist was an Amfleet I cafe/business class car, three Amfleet II coaches, and an Amfleet I coach on the rear. All of us boarding in Toronto heading for US points were herded into the Amfleet I coach, while intra-Canada riders got the Amfleet II coach ahead. The next coach held a tour group of about 45 people (who detrained at Niagara Falls) and the coach behind the cafe was used for boarding passengers at the intermediate Canadian stations. Not happy with being crammed into the Amfleet I (and needing to charge my cell phone) I quietly asked the VIA attendant if I could move up to the next coach after the train departed Aldershot, and she happily obliged. So I got to sit comfortably all the way to NYP after all.
The train ran on time until between Rochester and Syracuse when we stopped dead for about 10 minutes. The crew announced that a CSX freight had gone into emergency ahead and we would reverse to the nearest interlocking, cross over, then proceed east again around the freight. That delay, as well as an hour's delay at Syracuse due to single-tracking and congestion ahead put the train about an hour and a half down by the time we arrived in Albany. The locomotive change was delayed because the P32 was not quite in position and a northbound from NYP was arriving. To make a long story short, arrival in NYP was just before 11pm, barely in time to make the last Regional out for Philly.

Regarding the food, on the westbound trips, the cafe closed up leaving Exchange Street Buffalo and the attendant packed up all the food and reversed the menu cards. Whether or not the food was just locked away or actually offloaded in Niagara Falls, ON with the crew change, I don't know; but the VIA food was a tad better than an Amburger, I had to admit!

Overall, CN does an excellent job keeping the Maple Leaf on time on their side. On our side...well, you have to gamble on CSX.

[jp1822]

That's very odd, because I have seen them board passengers going to farther destinations on the Amfleet II Coaches and the shorter destinations on the Amfleet I coach - applies for both the Maple Leaf and Pennsylvanian (both trains have this Amfleet II/I combination and business/cafe car). I think they made an error in boarding that day. Last I saw the Maple Leaf - in February 2006, it was still operating with the Amfleet II and I combination. Saw it on the adjoining track when I was boarding the westbound Canadian.

[Silverliner II]

That's very odd, because I have seen them board passengers going to farther destinations on the Amfleet II Coaches and the shorter destinations on the Amfleet I coach - applies for both the Maple Leaf and Pennsylvanian (both trains have this Amfleet II/I combination and business/cafe car). I think they made an error in boarding that day. Last I saw the Maple Leaf - in February 2006, it was still operating with the Amfleet II and I combination. Saw it on the adjoining track when I was boarding the westbound Canadian.

Guess I just caught them on the odd day out. I walked through the train leaving Grimsby, and there was still plenty of room in the Amfleet II coach I was in to spread the US-bound people through two cars. Of course, the next car up emptied out totally after the tour group left at the Falls...

[fetzdog121]

I am meeting my brother in poughkeepsie on friday. He is coming in on the maple leaf, and i was wondering what the chances were that it would be on time. I was looking over the past week and its has been about an hour late every day, is that the norm for the train.

thanks

[Noel Weaver]

Check train status on www.amtrak.com on Friday afternoon or call Amtrak
at 1-899-872-7245.
Noel Weaver

[Rhinecliff]

Be carefull when monitoring this train's performance. Apparantly, Amtrak has padded the schedule for this train between SDY and ALB by an hour or more. I missed this train last week when it was reported 1'4" late out of UCA only to depart ALB on time.