Official MEC #501 Steam Restoration Project Thread

[b&m 1566]

It's how you use the person’s name. There's no need to bash someone and I’m sure this site and its creators would like to keep it that way. You don't like the idea that the 501 is not the number one priority that's fine but the group you referring to may not have the resource to start and complete such a big project. Why waste money on something that may never be finished. They have a very popular engine in that being the 4266. It's going to need a lot of work done on it in the next few years and that engine still runs. So they may have decided to put all there resources into the 4266 for now but that doesn't mean the 501 is gone for good. Whether it gets move into the round house or not, we will just have to wait and see but in doing that you tie up a stall that the CSRR uses regularly. My opinion the 470 should sell the 501 to someone who has the resources and a budget to fund the restoration and just pray that it stays in N. Conway.

[eriemike]

I would much perfer to talk about what needs to be done to get the 501 back in steam and how we, as railfans and steam fans can do to help the 470 to get her there. I think the foucs on past issue are just that, in the past. Our energies should be on the present and how to get to a positive out come in the future. I know of the chief mechanical officer at CSRR and I know that he would have never taken that job if steam was not part of the equation. I also know that he wants to see the 501 back in steam. You will also have the guys from Boothbay Village working on the 501 as well, from what I have heard. The Boothbay guys got the 7470 back. All three of them are doers and not talkers. Please, let us move forward!

[superwarp1]

Amen to that.

[NHN503]

As the others said, this thread is for the restoration of the 501.

Personal differences with members/employees of any group should be dealt with off list.


Thanks

[The MECnanic]

I know just about all the 470 RR Club Trustees, I listened for a full hour as the president rolled off one thing after the other which in plain laymans talk in regards to #501, spelled " BACK BURNER " to me. before i go any deeper into this i am in the process of writing a few letters and making a few phone calls and sending some e-mails. As far as doers v. talkers we shall see. Mr B&M #1566 had a good idea if the club has lost interest in a full restoration, there are other groups who could very well , take this type of thing on. remember that the bulk of the Trustees are well up in years, the Locomotive has been at N. conway for 25 years, " IF NOT NOW, WHEN? " I am sure at some point in time, just like the wagon wheel , Steam will be a rare thing, the EPA, Insurance, lack of those with mechanical skill, I,m 50 years old, i grew uo with no computerized gadgets, feeler gauges, time a engine by ear. set points with a match book cover in a pinch. The view point on #4266 being more popular was stated at the meeting. sorry. I,m a little deaf but not , stone deaf. The next Two 470 newsletters should spell it out , in the meantime , i can write and get a sounding on what is what. thanks.

[Guilford Guy]

we have the 470 club why not the 501 club

[The MECnanic]

*Moderator:
Post removed, does not pertain to topic

[The MECnanic]

Im getting e-mails a-plenty regarding The 470 Railroad Club Newsletter for June 2007 , still waiting for my copy. Page #5 They want $300,000.00 to do the #501, the club could buy surplus China Steam Locomotives and after a few modifications paint 501 on the side and run it all over the place for half that amount of money. Don,t quote me, you get the picture. I have all the copies of previous estimates ,every time the price of gas goes up a dollar , restoration goes up $100K. What are you people smoking up there in the Boothbay area? Restoration project or Rip-Off.? I,m going to go into the file cabinet and I,ll be back
I have invested about 1,500 hours of FREE volunteer time to date not including travel time, expenses,etc. No Way $300K. I have initiated an attempt with those concerned with #501 to deal with this issue and am awaiting a responce. I don,t see any need to scuttle the restoration. I,ll reserve additional comment at this point. Thank You.

[mxdata]

This is all very interesting, but is there any business plan for this restoration effort? What are the goals, other than to have #501 under steam again? Have any detailed surveys and cost estimating been done or are the repair costs just "opinions"? If the restoration were to be done, what is the economic viability of operating the locomotive?

Unfortunately there are getting to be too many well intentioned historic restoration efforts that end up like the "late" S.S. NOBSKA, whose website is still sailing along asking for donations and promising future events more than a year after the steamship was torched and recycled. Failed restorations make it more difficult for future efforts to attract contributors.

[Dick H]

According to the June issue of the 470 Club Newsletter, a survey of the 501 was done by the same company that did recent repair work on the CSRR 7470. To make the engine roadworthy would be a twelve step process costing in excess of $300,000.

Here's a direct quote from the article"

"Given the fact that a second steam engine does not fit into the operating scene of the CSRR plus the potential cost of doing the work, the following will be done:

1) A cosmetic restoration fo the engine and tender
2) Restoration of the thottle assembly by Strasburg RR
3) Parts presently not on the engine to be stored at the CSRR

In my opinion, even if someone donated the funds for restoration, the CSRR would not be interested in operating the 501, so it has no place to run. Maintaining and operating steam locomotives is a very expensive proposition. While railfans would like to see two steam locomotives operating in Northern NH, the general public, who represent most of the customers, do not have a clue on whether the 7470 or the 501 is powering the train. In fact, the CSRR managed very well for several years without the 7470 under steam. So, let's be thankful that the 501 will be preserved, even in a static display.

Dick H

[superwarp1]

"Given the fact that a second steam engine does not fit into the operating scene of the CSRR plus the potential cost of doing the work, the following will be done:

How about finding someone to restore her and operate her Somewhere else?

While I don't have a clue on the cost of steam operations to diesels. I do know one thing, I don't know a bigger draw than steam once again working the Notch train.

Anyway if it's not to be so be it.

[wolfmom69]

Very nicely said,and "realistic" also, Dick.

I would love to see it run also,along with the #470, but the paying tourists are what keep the "scenic" or tourist trains going.

Couple this with enviromental and steam safety laws, and its a different ballgame than even 20 years ago for FULL SIZE steam operations. Many "NIMBYS" in the Munjoy Hill area detest the Maine Narrow Gauge for its "smoke and soot"(hell, some towns in Maine are even enacting laws banning outdoor wood burning boilers---the same folks who are against fossil fuels!).

Thank God, that the Wiscasset narrow gauge is far enough enough "out of town" to escape these "envirowackos". This operation is a TRUE "step back in time"--and is wonderfully done!!

Steam enthusiasts are facing the safety/enviromental issues that us "Muscle Car" and "hot rodders" began to face in the late 60's---and even rising insurance premiums have to be figured in.

Bud

[mxdata]

Dick, thanks for your posting, that helps to put it in perspective.

With a diesel locomotive restoration, you have a reasonably good idea which parts are still available and what they are going to cost when you start the project. In some cases, the lack of availability and/or high cost of parts turn out to be good reasons not to attempt a restoration.

With a steam locomotive, you can start an estimated $300K restoration, get it taken apart, and find hidden problems that make it a 600K or more restoration. That can make the project take several times as long as was originally estimated to complete, and further drive up the costs.

And now you have another uncertainty to contend with, the possibility that if the project takes a lot of time to complete, the environmental laws will change before the project is finished, turning previous expendatures into money flushed down the toilet.

[The MECnanic]

Any consumer of labor or materials, should not use one estimate to be the final word. Some company comes along and spits out a $300,000.00 price tag to do a 12 step restoration. From 1997 to2000 Matt Rines #501 Project Manager allowed me to solicite prices from suppliers of materials to be used on #501. I have requested a copy of this bid from the 470 club, I await a reply. Matt Rines and i had a entire different plan than the one tossed around after his death. I have records of this plan and they are bona-fide. The plan was to Restore and operate #501. I don,t remember anything about turning anything over to CSRR. The #501 belongs to The 470 Club. The Mountain Division Track belongs to The State of New Hampshire not CSRR. The State awards a contract to those who submitt bids, I have as much right as CSRR to approach the State of NH to operate a train. I,ve been involved with running a business before, and anything I did ,Made $$$$. Period.
Very few of the young generation today want to get dirty or are interested in history, very few. If this was to be the final solution to #501 , it should have went to Scranton. But it didn,t, thou can not take $$ with you , thou should not put all eggs in one basket, the #501 saga is not over with a box car being filled with parts for "Possible ? future use "
and a quick spray bomb of black paint and it will look so pretty , wasting away. don,t count on it. The final chapter on #501 remains to be written, perhaps it may be for the Courts to decide it,s fate Like has been said before only one ingredient needed for anything and that is good old "DETERMINATION" Yes I,m very passionate about #501, no doubt about it. If I could pick her up and get her out of that place, I would.
I,m not dumb, nor an idiot, and I,m not dead , don,t under-estimate me for a minute. Remember the most dangerous anomal is a wounded animal, and i have been wounded by this talk of . giving in without a fight.
I will need help of every Steam Railfan, thou are with me or against me. Your Choice. When the right time comes ,you,ll see the Action part begin. at a point of my choosing and at the best time.

[#7470]

MECnanic, I'm behind you all the way. I'm of a young generation who doesn't mind getting dirty and working hard. I'm all for the preservaton of steam history, especially for the #501. I'm in.