NYSW passenger service restoration

On the Unofficial NJT page, I came across a "Project 2020" diagram. It said something about Pompton Lakes in it. Is service intended to come there or something, and what is Project 2020. Is it real?

The 2020 project map is a list of dream projects tha NJT would like to complete. The NYS&W would run from Sparta/Hardyston to Hoboken through Pompton Lakes, but as of this time, the project is dead, due to disagreements between NJT and NYS&W

THe project is not dead. There is simply no money to fund it at the present time.

Assuming this project was to happen. Would NJT build a yard for westbound passenger trains to layover? Also would the line become signaled? Because as of now, as many know, the NYSW uses Form D's for permission on the line.

Existing yards in Butler and/or Port Jervis could be utilized. Could also revamp a yard in Middletown, NY. No need to built a brand new yard in West Milford, Sparta, or Hardyston.

I don't know that yards in Middletown or Port Jervis would be feasible.
Wasn't NJT only proposing to go as far Sp/HDTown.Although I could see
restoring service up through Warwick.Is anything left of old L&HR yard?
Although you'd have to involve New York&NS for that.Too bad this isn't gonna happen anytime soon.It's sorely needed.

Everyone is fixated on service to Sparta w/a yard in Sparta (or nearby). The problem is that Sparta wants neither !

I say truncate the service to Butler and use the freight yard there. NJT could 'fast cycle" a single trainset between Butler and Paterson station where people could transfer to a NJT train. But that would be a 3 seat ride to NYC.

Or expand the service through Warwick and up to Port Jervis. NS service on the line is dead 'er than a doornail !

Bottom line use existing yards and avoid or pass through Sparta. No station stop in Sparta.

Butler as the western terminus would probably be the easiest way to restore service sooner than later.I believe the ridership would develop
very very quickly as a number of the folks who drive to park at Glen Rock,Ridgewood etc.are from towns along the NYS&W east of Butler.
Or maybe storing trains overnight in Butler &running from Newfoundland
in the morning would work.This should have been a done deal by now.
Before the Montclair Connection or light rail ever went forward.

IIRC, there was some news that NJT was actually able to secure some land for a layover yard in Hardyston Township.

For my part, I would prefer that service get extended to Port Jervis, even with duplicating the Metro-North service; towns like Warwick and Greycourt would get a restoration of rail service (Greycourt lost rail service when the old Erie main line was abandoned between Harriman and Guymard).

Long term it would make sense to run up ex-L&HR.Orange&Sussex Counties ultimately could probably make good use of it.What about a layover yard in Maybrook?is there enough land in the old yard for one?
I just think to initiate from Butler would be the fastest way to get some movement in it.Then extend by degrees as the funds become available.

The project is stalled by more than just a lack of funds. There is also a disagreement between NJT and the NYS&W. NJT wants to buy the property from the NYS&W, and NJT says they want too much for it. The NYS&W will not budge on their selling price, rumored to be in the area of 25-30 million. I dont know how much NJT is offering.

If they had the funding and equipment to start the project, I dont know if NJT would proceed without ownership of the railroad or not. Most likely there would be some type of signal system installed, as well as some sidings installed, if only to increase operational flexibilty. Otherwise, the service would wind up like the PVL, down in the morning, up at night.

Also, to be fair, the NYS&W has offered to NJT to operate the service on their own, if NJT would provide the funding. NJT has wisely refused, as the NYS&W proposal basically consisted of "give us the money and we will run some trains." From what I was told, their proposal did not cover exactly what equipment they would use for the trains, other than it would not be NJT equipment, also the service would operate from Sparta to an undetermined terminal, but would not run down the Main Line to Hoboken, as the NJT planed service would.

I recall that the base proposal was another PVL type operation, down in the AM up in the PM. Although there has been some development of housing above Butler, a Butler terminus would be a initial wise more. With areas like Butler, Kinnelon, Smokerise, you would have a good commuter base. Remember one thing, you can't get any more buses into NY, the Express Bus Lane at the Lincoln tunnel reached saturation well over a decade ago, probably two decades ago. Issues with the NYS&W as well as limited funds are problems. Oh well, we got the River LINE built (couldn't they have spent the money on a better project?)

Forget Hardystown and Sparta. Terminate the service where it was in Butler and reuse the yard or go no further then New Foundland. I'm sure most of the passenger stations are still intact and that all you have to do is expand the Butler yard and add a few passing sidings with signals. If NJT did this there would be no problems in getting this thing on line right about now. NJT is kicking a dead horse by dealing with the town of Sparta is is more anti Nimby then the towns along PVL and the RVRR.

Sparta is the laziest town in NJ. They don't want to expand Route 15 or have rail service but they would go gagga about the big box stores opening nearby and have no problem while the traffic backs up to Lori's Deli in Dover on Rt 15.

If you think 80 is bad, 15 is a nightmare. No thanks to a lazy town like Sparta dumping their problems on Dover, Rockaway, Wharton and the surronding area because those hicks don't want their "quality of life" to be ruined!

I don't understand this argument since they will have direct service to Hoboken and you can't get any yuppier then that city. It's not like they're having the line going to Bedsty Brooklyn or Camden NJ.

Sparta is probaly one of the stupidist towns around here. Im from a town 2 towns to the northwest and everyone here doesnt like Sparta at all. Im suprised they even gave the ok for a new siding and factory on the NYSW at Sparta Junction. I wish the rail service would be extended to Warwick. I know the Sparta station is still intact it would just need to be refurbished a little bit. If there was rail service i would dearly hope it helps the traffic problem on Rt. 23. Even on a saturday afternoon 23 has a moving line of traffic....i just wonder what its like on weekday mornings and afternoons.

Running to and from Butler is a the best idea. NJT should use the same leaseback deal they have for the new River Line equipment to get some refurbished/modernized RDCs from that Canadian company mentioned in Trains mag a couple months ago. Then run shuttle service to points north base don wha the traffic will bear. They could probably actually make money on that.

Hey, they could do the same thing from High Bridge west to P'Burg (would of course have to refurb track on that line...), or Hackettstown west to P'burg. Then see what kind of demand develops.
Similar to what the NYS&W is talking about doing in NY state with the new Railcar...

nah... to good an idea!