Numbers For SEPTA's P/P Cars

I know that SEPTA has/had the Comet II cars.

Does anybody know what numbers SEPTA's Comet II cars are? and also what if SEPTA uses any other types of coaches and cab cars what their numbers are along with the name of the car, ie Arrow IIs and so forth.

Thanks.

Comet II Coaches (25) are numbered 2501 to 2525.
Comet II Cabs (10) are numbered 2401 to 2410.
Comet III Coaches (10) are numbered 2550 to 2559.
AEM7s (7) are numbered 2301 to 2307.
The lone ALP44 is numbered 2308.


The only other equipment SEPTA operates are the various Silverliner types.

Silverliner IVs (ex RDG - Married Pairs) are numbered 101-188 (I think).
Silverliner IIs (ex PRR) are numbered 201-219 and 250 (or something close) to 269.
Silverliner IIIs (ex PRR) are numbered 220-239.
Silverliner IVs (ex PRR - Single Cars) are numbered 270-304 (I think).
Silverliner IVs (ex PRR - Married Pairs) are numbered 305-399.
Silverliner IIs (ex RDG) are numbered 9001-9017.
Silverliner IVs (ex RDG - Single Cars) were numbered 9018-9031. All renumbered, see below.
Silverliner IVs (Various Renumbered Cars from above series) 400-460. Lower numbers are Single Cars, higher ones are Married Pairs. All of the 9018-9031 series were renumbered.

All of the Silverliner IV groups above have had random cars renumbered in to the 400 series, so there are now gaps. These cars had PCB filled transformers removed for use in Frazer yard on the R5 Thorndale.

That should cover all of the equipment. That's all off the top of my head, so there may be errors.

Joe Wagner

wagz wrote:Silverliner IVs (ex RDG - Married Pairs) are numbered 101-188 (I think).

Yep.

Silverliner IIs (ex PRR) are numbered 201-219 and 250 (or something close) to 269.

251-269

Silverliner IIIs (ex PRR) are numbered 220-239.
Silverliner IVs (ex PRR - Single Cars) are numbered 270-304 (I think).
Silverliner IVs (ex PRR - Married Pairs) are numbered 305-399.

270-303 and 304-399

Silverliner IIs (ex RDG) are numbered 9001-9017.
Silverliner IVs (ex RDG - Single Cars) were numbered 9018-9031. All renumbered, see below.

Yep.

Silverliner IVs (Various Renumbered Cars from above series) 400-460. Lower numbers are Single Cars, higher ones are Married Pairs. All of the 9018-9031 series were renumbered.

All of the Silverliner IV groups above have had random cars renumbered in to the 400 series, so there are now gaps. These cars had PCB filled transformers removed for use in Frazer yard on the R5 Thorndale.

Yep. (credit for numbers to John Pawson's book, "Delaware Valley Rails")

Thanks guys,

What is a good way to visually tell the difference between the Comet II and Comet IIIs besides the numbering?

Also I thought that all the Silverliner was IVs, besides the numbering, what is a good way to visually tell the differnece between the 3?

Comet IIIs have Center doors, so that's pretty easy. Plus they tend to be shinier and in better shape than the IIs.

Silverliner IIs and IIIs have no rooftop "hump" for air conditioning, while the IVs do. The IVs also have a Center section where you can see where center doors were planned to be installed later, but never were. There is a gap in the window spacing before and after this center area.

The IIs and IIIs have 12 windows without any gaps, and no hump as I mentioned above. They also have manual "swing" doors unlike the electric sliding doors on the IVs. IIs and IIIs are very similar in appearance, but the windows on the IIIs are rectangualr as opposed to an oval shape. IIIs also have the engineer's controls on the left side of the car, although you can;t really tell this from the outside.

As you can tell from the numbering series in my previous post, there are somewhere near 230 IVs, while there are only 55 odd IIs and just 20 IIIs.

Joe

i thought the rooftop equipment had something to do with the brakes on the S-IVs....just a big resistor and the fans to cool it.

S IIs have the remains of letterboards above the windows, while the SIIIs do not. SIIIs 232-239 were modified for airport service, but are no longer used as such. They have reversable 2x2 seating and large luggage spaces at the end of each car.

jsc wrote:i thought the rooftop equipment had something to do with the brakes on the S-IVs....just a big resistor and the fans to cool it.

You are correct. The rooftop equipment on the SLIV's contains the dynamic brake resistor grids. The HVAC equipment is all under the floor. These cars have a "passive" dynamic braking system similar to a diesel locomotive in that they not have the capability to regenerate power back to the catenary, it is simply routed to the resistors and converted to heat.

One minor correction to the Silverliner IV lists (as of today)

Silverliner IV (single units)
276-305 (some renumbered to fill gaps left when cars were renumbered into the 400-series)
400-416

Silverliner IV (married pairs)
101-188 (gaps due to renumberings into the 400-series)
308-399 (gaps due to renumberings into the 400-series)
417-460

Time to confuse you all more. The original 30 Silverliner IV's renumbered into the 400's were as follows:
401-410 (single units)
411-430 (married pairs)

I used to have a complete Silverliner IV renumbering conversion chart, including the 400-series cars that were renumbered twice (the original 411-416 were married pairs renumbered into higher 400's as single units were renumbered into the current 411-416).

Regarding the Bombardier fleet:
As a comparison, the original cars (2401-2410 and 2501-2525) were based on the NJT Comet IIb series delivered to NJT in 1987 shortly after the SEPTA order.

The center-door cars (2550-2559) were actually built to Metro-North Shoreliner III specs (except with the interior decor and seats matching our existing fleet). These cars were built and delivered at the same time as that last Metro-North order.

Since we're talking numbers, I'll fill you in on a plan SEPTA had to renumber the Silverliner II fleet (this plan was since scrapped). It would have seen the 9000-series ex-Reading Silverliner II's go into the 200-series as follows:

201-209
210 (former 9001, fills gap from original car wrecked)
211-219

220-239 (Silverliner III)

240-250 (former 9002-9012)
251-264
265 (former 9013, fills gap from original car wrecked)
266-269
270-273 (former 9014-9017)

reldnahkram wrote:S IIs have the remains of letterboards above the windows, while the SIIIs do not.

Example:
http://www.transitspot.com/gallery/SEPT ... 4_12_29_85

Silverliner II wrote:Regarding the Bombardier fleet:
As a comparison, the original cars (2401-2410 and 2501-2525) were based on the NJT Comet IIb series delivered to NJT in 1987 shortly after the SEPTA order.

The center-door cars (2550-2559) were actually built to Metro-North Shoreliner III specs (except with the interior decor and seats matching our existing fleet). These cars were built and delivered at the same time as that last Metro-North order.

Since we're talking numbers, I'll fill you in on a plan SEPTA had to renumber the Silverliner II fleet (this plan was since scrapped). It would have seen the 9000-series ex-Reading Silverliner II's go into the 200-series as follows:

201-209
210 (former 9001, fills gap from original car wrecked)
211-219

220-239 (Silverliner III)

240-250 (former 9002-9012)
251-264
265 (former 9013, fills gap from original car wrecked)
266-269
270-273 (former 9014-9017)

Wait the SEPTA fleet was built by Bombardier and not Pullman-Standard?!

One of One-Sixty wrote:Wait the SEPTA fleet was built by Bombardier and not Pullman-Standard?!

Yes. Bombardier acquired the designs from Pullman-Standard.

The only cars of the design actually built by Pullman-Standard were the NJT Comet I cars in 1970-71 and what are now the 200-series trailer coaches operated by the MBTA (originally 1300-series cabs and 300-series trailers) in the late 1970's.

Is there any diagrams or anything of the Comet II and Comet III, heck I would take them for the Amtrak Horizon cars since they are similar in design.

I want to try to kit bash some.

One of One-Sixty wrote:Is there any diagrams or anything of the Comet II and Comet III, heck I would take them for the Amtrak Horizon cars since they are similar in design.

I want to try to kit bash some.

Walthers makes HO scale models of Bombardier coach and cab cars for:
MBTA, NJ Transit, Metro-North (ConnDOT red stripe/markings), Metro-North (MTA blue stripe/markings), VRE (not really realistic to their fleet), SEPTA (very hard to find now; that line was discontinued), and Horizon coaches and cafes for Amtrak.

Silverliner II wrote:

One of One-Sixty wrote:Is there any diagrams or anything of the Comet II and Comet III, heck I would take them for the Amtrak Horizon cars since they are similar in design.

I want to try to kit bash some.

Walthers makes HO scale models of Bombardier coach and cab cars for:
MBTA, NJ Transit, Metro-North (ConnDOT red stripe/markings), Metro-North (MTA blue stripe/markings), VRE (not really realistic to their fleet), SEPTA (very hard to find now; that line was discontinued), and Horizon coaches and cafes for Amtrak.

As usual, everything is in HO and O, one of the resson I am trying to kit bash them is I model in N scale. I know that tne Bachmann Amfleet cars the bottom is very similar along with the trucks, but everything else will have to be made from scratch or from pieces of others.