North Shore line

I've been trying to find a way to better serve the north shore of Long Island, and I've settled on a old route:

Line branches off Port Washington line at Great neck and runs along NY25A and Muttontown Rd to Syosset (Port Jefferson line).

Here's my question. Will this route draw a great amount of riders? Will this spur North Shore development?

Also, here are the other revised, simpler ideas on how to make the LIRR better:

4 track main line between Jamaica and Hicksville. A new branch serves PJ stops between New Hyde Park to Huntington while current PJ line serves Huntington and Port Jefferson.

Double track Ronkonkoma and Port Jefferson lines and extend electric to Port Jeff.

Double track and high-speed corridor along Montuak line. Grade crossing removal and track renewal.

Double track and improve Oyster Bay line. Run ferries from CT/Westchester (Stamford, Greenwich, Norwalk, Bridgeport, New Rochelle) to northern Oyster Bay stops.

Run Hempstead line under HTC and along NY24 to Farmingdale (electric and double tracked).

"Double track and improve Oyster Bay line. Run ferries from CT/Westchester (Stamford, Greenwich, Norwalk, Bridgeport, New Rochelle) to northern Oyster Bay stops. "

there is no chance for this unless some devloper disides to build robert moses's bridge across the sound to conn.
then the LIRR can be used as ans express route yo bridgort? (correct me if i got the conn parell wrong).

"Run Hempstead line under HTC and along NY24 to Farmingdale (electric and double tracked)."
that line is already already presesnt in the former CRRLI ROW. wich is at most a mile form rte24. and goes through the middle of LI where trains service IS needed and will paly a HUGE part in any intra island plan.

its been talked about plenty of times on this borb but here goes again..

no need to cram a 3rd track on the main line between floral pk and Hicksville. that would be actully more of a waist of capital taxpayers money becaus it clearly duplicates the current service not creating any more service.

re build the central line from HC to Beth tower.
East bound from jamaica or form hempstead- makes stops at "Clinton road- Quniton roosevelt blvd(shuttle bus to mall) Nassau college, esinhower pk(summer only) Levittown, West Bethpage."

after the stop at west beth page you can actully have a decint storage yrad there to lay up trains and for NYA to store freights. then the local will continue east to KO or Babylon. Babylon because the central through farmingdale will be eletrified.

East Bound train to Ko from both Jamaica and Hempstead
Jamaica, Clinton rd, Quniton-roosevelt, NCC, Esnh pk, Levitown, west bethpage, Farmingdale, Pine lawn, Wyandanch, Brentwood,CI, KO.

Hempstead, CLP, Clinton rd, Quniton-roosevelt, NCC, Esnh pk, Levitown, west bethpage, Farmingdale, Pine lawn, Wyandanch, Brentwood,CI, KO.

now all trains to babylon will follow the same service to West Beth page where they split to go south and stop at babylon.

that will free up the mainline to run express train between (Jam,Hicks,KO)
current mainline stations will be served by OB/PJ branch trains.

that is really all the LIRR neads at this time to free up the main line.

somthing along what i disignesd in this post, will get the long island high taxpayes more train service closer to home and will then be a dent in the idea of intra island rail.
we pay enough taxes y not make them go to work for us in the transportation dept.[/quote]

Why must we do this everytime. Yes I agree with you Bensalem, I would like to see all of that accomplished. But the truth is the LIRR is going to keep rising fare cost just so they can stay alive. If the President wasn't paid over $215,000+ a year, along with the other officials and their high-end salary, it could be worked on. This is what I see: You want to put a fourth mainline in when they are looking for a third? Highspeed out to montauk? how much faster do you need to go? How are you going to eliminate all the grade crossings? Probably can't build a tunnel because of the ground water level, can't go above-people will really start to complain. How many houses have to be knocked down for a new branch line.

Quit dreaming people. Unless you have been hired by the railroad to plan out these proposals, there's no use posting them here. The LIRR doesn't read the forums and no one else here can help make anything you posted work.

Agreed Emfinite, this thread should be locked!

Nah dude its all kosher. Topics like this are good to get a few laughs at from far fetched ideas.

"Line branches off Port Washington line at Great neck and runs along NY25A and Muttontown Rd to Syosset (Port Jefferson line). "

It'd probably have to branch off closer to Manhasset b/c of the valley. But this line would definately see good ridership. 25A is PACKED during rush hour.

Run the trains from NYP/Sunnyside or GCT to Flushing, Great Neck, Munsey Park, North Roslyn/Wheatly Hills, East Norwich, Syosset, Huntington, Smithtown, Port Jeff, and then via a connection to the Greenport: Riverhead, Mattituck, Greenport.


"4 track main line between Jamaica and Hicksville. A new branch serves PJ stops between New Hyde Park to Huntington while current PJ line serves Huntington and Port Jefferson. "

3 tracks is really all they'd need, especially if they also rebuild the Central. And I don't know what you mean by a new branch, but anything new paralleling the PJ would be a bad idea.


"Double track Ronkonkoma and Port Jefferson lines and extend electric to Port Jeff. "

Double track is really only needed to about Smithtown, atleast for now. Electrify to PJ when they retire the DE/DM fleet.


"Double track and high-speed corridor along Montuak line. Grade crossing removal and track renewal. "

I don't see much point to that. Why bother with grade elmination?


"Double track and improve Oyster Bay line. Run ferries from CT/Westchester (Stamford, Greenwich, Norwalk, Bridgeport, New Rochelle) to northern Oyster Bay stops. "

On my site I've got ferries to Glen Cove from New Rochelle and Bridgeport. I might add Greenwhich and northern Norwalk though.


"Run Hempstead line under HTC and along NY24 to Farmingdale (electric and double tracked)."

Again, I'd like to see how you'd build along NY24. You'd have to demolition dozens of homes and businesses. You'd have to shut down NY24 in sections to build this thing.


"there is no chance for this unless some devloper disides to build robert moses's bridge across the sound to conn. "

How can you say that. A ferry would work great. The only reason Fox Navigation failed was because the fares were through the roof, and it only went to pier 11 and New London.


"no need to cram a 3rd track on the main line between floral pk and Hicksville. that would be actully more of a waist of capital taxpayers money becaus it clearly duplicates the current service not creating any more service. "

What the hell are you talking about. The 3rd track would allow for increased service in both directions!


"Hempstead, CLP, Clinton rd, Quniton-roosevelt, NCC, Esnh pk, Levitown, west bethpage, Farmingdale, Pine lawn, Wyandanch, Brentwood,CI, KO. "

Better yet, run it from Valley Stream, up the WH, up the CLP ROW, then over via the central and main to Ronkonkoma.

NIMBYkiller wrote:"Line branches off Port Washington line at Great neck and runs along NY25A and Muttontown Rd to Syosset (Port Jefferson line). "

It'd probably have to branch off closer to Manhasset b/c of the valley. But this line would definately see good ridership. 25A is PACKED during rush hour.

Run the trains from NYP/Sunnyside or GCT to Flushing, Great Neck, Munsey Park, North Roslyn/Wheatly Hills, East Norwich, Syosset, Huntington, Smithtown, Port Jeff, and then via a connection to the Greenport: Riverhead, Mattituck, Greenport.


"4 track main line between Jamaica and Hicksville. A new branch serves PJ stops between New Hyde Park to Huntington while current PJ line serves Huntington and Port Jefferson. "

3 tracks is really all they'd need, especially if they also rebuild the Central. And I don't know what you mean by a new branch, but anything new paralleling the PJ would be a bad idea.


"Double track Ronkonkoma and Port Jefferson lines and extend electric to Port Jeff. "

Double track is really only needed to about Smithtown, atleast for now. Electrify to PJ when they retire the DE/DM fleet.


"Double track and high-speed corridor along Montuak line. Grade crossing removal and track renewal. "

I don't see much point to that. Why bother with grade elmination?


"Double track and improve Oyster Bay line. Run ferries from CT/Westchester (Stamford, Greenwich, Norwalk, Bridgeport, New Rochelle) to northern Oyster Bay stops. "

On my site I've got ferries to Glen Cove from New Rochelle and Bridgeport. I might add Greenwhich and northern Norwalk though.


"Run Hempstead line under HTC and along NY24 to Farmingdale (electric and double tracked)."

Again, I'd like to see how you'd build along NY24. You'd have to demolition dozens of homes and businesses. You'd have to shut down NY24 in sections to build this thing.


"there is no chance for this unless some devloper disides to build robert moses's bridge across the sound to conn. "

How can you say that. A ferry would work great. The only reason Fox Navigation failed was because the fares were through the roof, and it only went to pier 11 and New London.


"no need to cram a 3rd track on the main line between floral pk and Hicksville. that would be actully more of a waist of capital taxpayers money becaus it clearly duplicates the current service not creating any more service. "

What the hell are you talking about. The 3rd track would allow for increased service in both directions!


"Hempstead, CLP, Clinton rd, Quniton-roosevelt, NCC, Esnh pk, Levitown, west bethpage, Farmingdale, Pine lawn, Wyandanch, Brentwood,CI, KO. "

Better yet, run it from Valley Stream, up the WH, up the CLP ROW, then over via the central and main to Ronkonkoma.

I would turn the North Shore trains around at Huntington. North Shore trains will be electric (Sorry NIMBY, this has to be electric or you'll squeeze to much out of the fleet)

As for the PJ issue, those DM's would be better served on the Montuak line and also on this proposal:

Since the NS line will take riders into Manhattan, the OB can be connected to the WH. trains will run down the Wh and the along the Main line serving Queens stops:

Why you ask?

Becuase as opposed to simply sending them to Far Rockaway where they'll probably end up empty, the better soultion is to use the trains to get passengers off the E/F subway and onto the LIRR. New stops would be at Rego Park and Elmhurst.

The OB-WH line would use the new C3 fleet and would consist of 8-10 car trains. thus giving a heavy duty cross island connector.


Here's how the lines would shake out with the Central installed:

Port Jefferson/Montauk use Main line
Hempstead/Ronkonkoma use Central




The Central and North Shore lines will be electric.






Oh, and you wonder how a NY24 line could become reality:

You could place the Platforms and tracks in the Center Median (maybe even elimanate a couple of traffic lanes. OR you could build an El like the DC metro.

But using the Central is fine too.

Now to make it work you want to get rid of traffic lanes when traffic in those areas can be horrible! You don't get it-none of this will ever happen so just end it. I am sick of seeing threads like this with people saying they want this and that done, but it is totally out of the question. I don't know what when on this weekend in PA, but we on Long Island got close to two feet of snow. The LIRR Canceled the Greenport Scoot because of it. Maybe they should try to figure out a way to keep the train running when it snows and worry about high speed to montauk and getting rid of traffic lanes some other time.

i gave you's the only actual possibility.

and thats that,

now if anyone wants to see somthing lets get off out lasy A$$s and blast thoes incharge of the LIRR's captial and so on, and get our ideas on the tabel.

hey there all blind as bats, and could give a rat's.. if all trains were practally tailgating. the current system works fine,

when the CRR was abandoned it was really not developed as it its now.
there for they abandoned it. if the line was proven usefull then maby i would have been on the MTAs cost saving abandonments this year.

we all know that the CRR is a logical supliment to the Main because it serves through the dencer hart of nassau. but try convincing that to the people that can get the ROW re built. there just drowning in there wealth and can care less.

I have a question for you Bensalem- I just checked out the Septa Forum and it seems that all you want to do is expand every single line. Are you aware of how much money that is for you? Expanding the LIRR would probably end up being Billions of dollars at the expense of LIRR riders in NY, not PA! Also, why are you so worried about the LIRR when you live 138 miles, 2 1/2 hours away?

"I would turn the North Shore trains around at Huntington. North Shore trains will be electric (Sorry NIMBY, this has to be electric or you'll squeeze to much out of the fleet) "

I agreed in a previous post that it should be electric. It's the only thing that makes sense. The only section that shouldn't be is from Riverhead to Greenport.

I still think though that if this were built, they should operate the length of the island and not just terminate in Huntington.


"As for the PJ issue, those DM's would be better served on the Montuak line and also on this proposa"

But why do you need to build a new line? I think I'm not understanding you. Hold off electrification to PJ until they retire the DM fleet.


"Becuase as opposed to simply sending them to Far Rockaway where they'll probably end up empty, the better soultion is to use the trains to get passengers off the E/F subway and onto the LIRR. New stops would be at Rego Park and Elmhurst. "

But routing the OB via the WH is just a horrible and senseless idea. There is not one bit of logic in that plan. And they would not end up being empty on the Far Rock. There are thousands of people living along that line. There would definately be quite a few people riding to the West Hempstead/Mineola/Roslyn areas. Those are big job areas.

The only thing that re-routing the OB via the WH will do is inconvinience those who use the OB to reach NYP. And don't say they can just transfer or drive to the NS line, b/c that's still an inconvience.


"Port Jefferson/Montauk use Main line
Hempstead/Ronkonkoma use Central "

There are a lot of people though who work in the Hicksville/Mineola areas. Why inconvinience them? Run trains from Montauk/Patchogue via the main. Run trains from Babylon via the Babylon and Central.
PJ/OB trains could operate via the NS and main.
Ronkonkoma trains via the main and a few via the central.
Hempstead via its current routing.


"The Central and North Shore lines will be electric. "

Agreed.


"You could place the Platforms and tracks in the Center Median (maybe even elimanate a couple of traffic lanes. OR you could build an El like the DC metro. "

What did I just say? IT IS IMPOSSIBLE! There is a median for only a few miles. And even that section has to be elevated b/c of all the grade crossings that would have to be built. And it would be impossible to built an el. You'd have to shut down miles of the road at a time, something that will never happen. I'm glad to see though you've agreed that the central will work though.


"I am sick of seeing threads like this with people saying they want this and that done, but it is totally out of the question."

Tough shit. You don't like em, then don't read em. Otherwise quite bitchin.

tushykushy wrote:Nah dude its all kosher. Topics like this are good to get a few laughs at from far fetched ideas.

True. I think most of us would agree that just about all of the crazy ideas posted to this board would be cool, but the fact is they simply aren't practical.

SeldenJrFireman wrote:I have a question for you Bensalem- I just checked out the Septa Forum and it seems that all you want to do is expand every single line. Are you aware of how much money that is for you? Expanding the LIRR would probably end up being Billions of dollars at the expense of LIRR riders in NY, not PA! Also, why are you so worried about the LIRR when you live 138 miles, 2 1/2 hours away?

He has also suggested a new, ROUNDABOUT, line for MNR at staphangers. I don't think he will be satisfied until every single town has it's own station with one seat rides to every other town. Maybe I am exagerating a little...

Maybe a branch chopped off at Cold Spring Harbor, through to Melville, then east through Dix Hills, to Hauppauge, and east to places like Centereach, Coram, Selden, and Middle Island. That should blow all the non-existant funding on legal fights.