North Carolina NCDOT-Amtrak Carolinian Service

The rumor mill is buzzing that the 3rd Piedmont frequency will begin in May, but I am surprised that we have not seen any timetable information on it yet. Same rumor mill says it will be 2020 before the 4th gets running. Neither the conductor or host on the 74 last week had any information about it that they were willing to share with a foamer. FWIW I rode CLT-DNC on Thursday and RGH-CLT on Friday on the midday service. Thursday (2 coaches plus combi) was crowded and Friday (3 coaches plus combi) was jammed with people forced to sit in the lounge.

High-level platform in Raleigh (not open yet) looks quite strange in this part of the country. Is it the only one South of Richmond Main Street?

The Charlotte service yard appears to be 100% finished with the exception of the switch tieing it to the main. I believe all the necessary equipment and parts are sitting in the Tryon St yard now so hopefully installation will begin shortly. Puzzled about how they will manage crew changes for the 19 and 20 from the new crew building.

Matt Johnson wrote:

Woody wrote:An interesting article, dated July 13, 2010. Looks like 90 mph was promised back then. But the current promises could vary. LOL.

the Obama era stimulus grants came with a lot of false promises. Chicago - St Louis 110 mph by 2015, North Carolina Piedmont 90 mph, Connecticut New Haven-Hartford corridor upgraded to 110 mph, just off the top of my head.

The Wolverine corridor Dearborn - Kalamazoo up to 110 mph {not yet), the Quantico new bridge and added track to shave 5 or 10 minutes off the D.C. - Richmond line (not gonna save any minutes), rebuilding the Harold Interlocking at exit from tunnel from NYP under the East River to untangle from the LIRR and save 3 minutes off every train heading toward Boston (not to be finished until 2022 or later, with no recent promise of any time savings at all). Near Albany work on trackage around the station, on signaling south of it, double-tracking west of it (if anything tangible accomplished the Governor would have had a photo op, but no), modernized catenery on part of the Speedway New Brunswick - Trenton (I have nothing to report). Guess we should add the order for 130 bi-level cars for Midwest service (need I explain).

Of course, the Stimulus projects were awarded all or most with a state match, and the specifics of the state proposals may have been ... oversold. The biggest liar state may have become the biggest winner. Srsly.

The one big project most likely to succeed in meeting deadlines was the upgrades on the Cascades line. But alas, that entry was disqualified due to the tragic outcome of the inaugural run and the resulting postponement of new service.

btw Amtrak outperformed the other grantees, rebuilding wrecks parked at Beech Grove, finishing that bridge in Connecticut, getting a big part of an enclosed maintenance facility in Seattle, etc.

The Obama-Biden-LaHood team all expected that the initial pile of money, $10 Billion or so, could get things going. Everyone figured the states would have to gear up to spend such big money. So, for example, CREATE got a couple of projects funded but more were not.

Illinois got $1.4 Billion for upgrading 75% of the St Louis-Chicago corridor while expecting about as much over later years to cover Joliet-Chicago, a new bridge over the Mississippi at the other end, and more stuff around Springfield when the money came thru.

The feds would pay for the South-of-the-Lake segment connecting Michigan's 110-mile corridor Kalamazoo-Porter, IN onward to Chicago Union Station.

Money would also come for orders to renew the Amfleets and Superlners with hundreds of new cars.

Then Obama proposed $4 Billion a year for passenger rail infrastructure in every budget he sent to Congress. We know what happened there. Any fair accounting of the record of the Obama Stimulus passenger rail effort must give full credit to his opponents for their contributions.

Glowing comments about Raleigh's new Union Station from Trains mag:

http://cs.trains.com/trn/b/staff/archiv ... ation.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you haven’t heard of this $88 million project, I am here to predict that you will. Outside of California High Speed Rail and Brightline, I would dare say this is one of the biggest and boldest passenger train projects in the U.S.

Opening date in Raleigh appears to be either April 30 or May 1 at this point.

at the other end of the NCRR, groundbreaking on Charlotte Gateway Station should be in May (for trackwork, signals and a temporary station, the full station building is waiting on responses to an RFP issued to developers.)

Lots of good pictures at
https://www.raleighnc.gov/home/content/ ... ation.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is the idea that, in the long run, the station can serve platforms on any of the three tracks in the Wye / on the 3 sides of the site? I don't know enough about the site and the lines to get the impact that the Trains author clearly hopes I'd have:

It’s inside the wye...where the Norfolk Southern and CSX main lines split after running jointly for about 10 miles to Cary... In about 10 years, that future could include commuter trains from Garner on the east and West Durham on the other side. Further down the road that could include high speed trains on a reborn S-Line.

And buses come & go via both the "alongside" curb at center-right and loop in/out via the underpass at bottom right?

Here is an old picture that clearly shows the station's position inside the NS/CSX (and SAL?) Wye:

Woody wrote:Then Obama proposed $4 Billion a year for passenger rail infrastructure in every budget he sent to Congress. We know what happened there. Any fair accounting of the record of the Obama Stimulus passenger rail effort must give full credit to his opponents for their contributions.

I would give full credit to Obama.

It's common knowledge that Republicans strongly dislike passenger rail. (I should know; I was one, and I worked in the passenger rail field.)

Obama was the one who decided to give grants of passenger rail funds largely to states run by Republican governors and legislatures, who had the power to reject the funds. The funds could have been structured another way.

It doesn't take a brilliant political scientist to determine how things would turn out.

With $10 billion, the US could have had a brand-new HSR system built in Florida, or significant upgrades to the NEC, or a significant part of California HSR funded. But no, we don't.

Let’s not give credit solely to any administration ; we all know Presdiential budget proposals arrive on Capital Hill dead in the water.
I agree that the $10 billion could have been allocated differently, one man’s trash is another’s treasure. Let’s remember that $10 billion wasn’t allocated just for rail improvements, it was a part of a larger allocation for boosting the economy and provide much needed jobs during an economic downturn, to projects supposedly shovel ready or could be shovel ready quickly.
Some of the rail projects many suggest it could have been allocated to were not shovel ready, nor could they be shovel ready quickly. It’s been 10 years and some shovel ready projects are still underway, long after the jobs were desperately needed.

The Florida HSR line was shovel-ready. However, the governor rejected the funds.

Yes, the governor did reject the funds. But the masses had already rejected the FHSR Authority in a state wide referendum. The ARRA funding it received was last gasp attempt by an unwanted Authority to survive. Wiki has a good history of the project everyone should review: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_H ... d_Corridor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some lessons learned we should all take from it is that projects started by referendums can be killed by referendums. Authorities initiated by legislation are difficult to eliminate by legislation. They seem to survive for a short time even after their funding has been removed.

Finally, the only sections that had received a FRA Record of Decision was Phase 1, Tampa to Orlando. Therefore, those were the only sections Federal funds could have been allocated.

Love the HSR History but it seems off topic here.

The aerial below is from the south, looking north. NS (former SOU) owns the west leg of the wye and NCRR owns the south leg. CSX (former SAL) owns the east leg.

Vehicle circulation is planned to be entry at the north underpass/Martin St. and exit at the south underpass. N. underpass will be one way entry only. S. underpass will be two way but only for oversize vehicles. Pedestrian entry will also be adjacent to the north underpass.

The idea for future S-line service is to install another platform north of the wye between two dedicated station tracks, going under Martin St., ending just north of the Hargett St. crossing. New entry/exit by pedestrians along a new sidewalk from the north side of the building to the new platform. Avoiding installing platforms in curves is important for everybody's sanity.

Commuter on the NCRR would get a new 15" platform north of the just constructed 48" platform, assuming commuter uses equipment with 15" loading, like Bombardier bi-levels. Only single track commuter platform though, based on the planning.

Arlington wrote:Lots of good pictures at
https://www.raleighnc.gov/home/content/ ... ation.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is the idea that, in the long run, the station can serve platforms on any of the three tracks in the Wye / on the 3 sides of the site? I don't know enough about the site and the lines to get the impact that the Trains author clearly hopes I'd have:

It’s inside the wye...where the Norfolk Southern and CSX main lines split after running jointly for about 10 miles to Cary... In about 10 years, that future could include commuter trains from Garner on the east and West Durham on the other side. Further down the road that could include high speed trains on a reborn S-Line.

And buses come & go via both the "alongside" curb at center-right and loop in/out via the underpass at bottom right?

Here is an old picture that clearly shows the station's position inside the NS/CSX (and SAL?) Wye:

Thanks! The need for both a 15" and a high level platform explains why there appeared to be a close-but unused entrance (the future commuter entry in the upper left in the photo) and why there is such a long hallway to get to the 48" Intercity platform. It also makes sense that both are on the NCRR stretch.

If SEHSR comes in from Richmond, where would it enter here--from the top of the photo or from the bottom?--and how would it leave for Charlotte on NCRR (would it have stopped at the original 48" platform or one on the West leg)?

SEHSR would use the planned non-existent platform described above, ending at Hargett St., using the S line alignment there.

The concourse from the building to the platforms is dictated primarily by the physical distance from the H-line on the south side of the wye to the building and the need to get enough length to fall below a commuter platform between the new platform and the building. Compliant slopes are very long to get as far down as they need to.

Arlington wrote: If SEHSR comes in from Richmond, where would it enter here--from the top of the photo or from the bottom?--and how would it leave for Charlotte on NCRR (would it have stopped at the original 48" platform or one on the West leg)?

SEHSR would enter Raleigh from Richmond at the top of the photo (on the S Line). It would head out to Charlotte at the left of the photo (on the NCRR). The leg of the wye at the right of the photo would only (possibly) be used for far-in-the-future commuter service between the Clayton/Selma area and North Raleigh (such service isn't even on the drawing board yet, a much more likely routing is from Clayton to Durham (and beyond) using the tracks at the bottom of the photo).

EDIT: the service and storage yard for the NCDOT passenger gear is up off the top of the photo (on the S-line) so its possible that they will use the eastern (right side of photo) leg of the wye would be handy for equipment repositioning moves (slightly reducing the amount of time the NCRR is fouled with a backing move).

Is there a planned platform at the far-left line (NS to Fayetteville)? Seems like it’d be a good idea to underpin one, even if it isn’t used for some time.

Attended a meeting with NCDOT staff yesterday. Station dedication is to be Monday April 30, coordinated by City of Raleigh staff. Last train to use current station will be #91 on the evening of May 1, move will take place during the night and first train out of the new station will be #73 a Piedmont on Wednesday morning May 2.