NJT Permit Troubles Today (a report)

This is really long, but I want everybody to know what happened to me on Tuesday, and take precautions so it does not happen to you too.

My first railfanning excursion to do video on NJT since summer of 2001 and I think my presence doing some railfan video (even with my permit) caused quite a stir on the Raritan Valley Line at Bound Brook Tuesday afternoon...

With all due respect to my fellow engineers and train crew members who frequent this board, you were only doing your jobs, as I would do in the same case. But, had there been some kind of communication between the proper authorities and the train dispatchers, perhaps my headaches of today might have been avoided.

I finally wrapped up my video on the ever-transitioning state of the NJT rail fleet Tuesday. Over the course of the last two weeks (and with proper permits obtained from NJT), I did filming at South Amboy, Waldwick, Metuchen, and Bound Brook. And to say that pursuing this hobby is becoming more like work than fun was an understatement.

Thursday, June 17th
I documented a morning rush at South Amboy station. The humidity that morning wreaked havoc with my camera, so I was unable to film for the first hour and a half of the time on my permit…and missed a lot of action, darn it! While there, in response to calls from a passenger and a train crew, I got questioned by one conductor, NJT police, and the South Amboy ticket agent. All of them examined my paperwork and were satisfied.

I then covered Waldwick station for the afternoon rush. Had the same humidity issue along with a thunderstorm that knocked out the first hour of time on my permit. Nobody so much as even blinked an eye while I was there…I had no interference from anybody at all there.

Monday, June 28th
I documented an afternoon rush at Metuchen. Got questioned by one Metuchen police corporal who inspected and okayed my paperwork after telling me a train crew called me in. He also allowed me to continue filming, but suggested that next time to contact them first before filming so they would know that I (or anyone else) was there. Ironically, I got to speak to the engineer of said crew when his train was returning to NYP, and he apologized after I told him I was also an engineer (but hey, how was he to know….me wearing my BLET division cap means nothing when you only have a quick glance).

Tuesday June 29th
I documented the afternoon rush at Bound Brook, and the resulting fiasco ruined my planned ending of a Comet Ib set gliding off into the sunset…but oh well! This was a classic case of miscommunication somewhere. All was well until around 4pm when I was questioned by Bound Brook police (they told me an engineer called me in), and then okayed to continue after verifying my permit and what I was doing. An hour or so later, an NJT officer arrived (this time on a tip from a passenger)…went through the same thing. We actually had a nice chat for a few minutes afterwards.

Then, right around 6:30 when I was ready to wrap up with the last three trains I would be there for, I got stopped by Bound Brook police again. Seems another engineer called me in, and the RVL dispatcher was QUITE concerned. So I had to accompany this officer to headquarters and wait for NJT police to arrive from Plainfield so we could straighten it all out. To make a long story short, this NJT officer reviewed my information, and I even ran the last few minutes of tape back for him. He then reported back to whomever was on the other end of his phone that basically my tape was nothing sinister and that they had no reason for concern, that my camera wasn’t even digital, and that he couldn’t do anything else since my permit was valid. He then gave me a lift back to the station, and by then it was time for me to go, so that was that.

The Bound Brook and NJT police said the same thing to me that the Metuchen officer did, and that was next time to let them know I (or anyone else) was in possession of a permit and would be filming or taking photos there in order to more easily handle calls. The big problem, from what I gathered is that the lines of communication did not include the chief train dispatcher, who was apparently upset over still getting calls about me hours after the initial calls and earlier police response.

But in the end, all I can say is that people were doing their jobs as instructed, and everybody involved was extremely polite (and in the case of one NJT officer, sympathetic to the hassle I was going through). And despite my lost ending, I got a pretty decent documentary of all the different equipment types before the older stuff goes to that big scrapyard in the sky.

Next on my NJT railfanning agenda: The new diesels and the bi-levels….but not until 2007 when the bi-levels are slated to begin arriving. Hopefully within the intervening three years, NJT’s stance toward railfans will have improved again.

And if any of the NJT T&E people who frequent this board read this and also work the Raritan Valley Line…sorry for the concern, but like I said earlier, you’ve got no way of knowing who is a bona-fide railfan or not. No hard feelings from me here!

:o)
Joe

Is it just me, or are there a lot more "crazy" people working on the RVL. Could be just me. I've had a few run-ins with crewmen on that line as well (except concerning ticket cutting mistakes of other crewmen on other lines and them giving me a hassle about it- I always check my tickets after they have been cut now.)

Thanks for the heads up Silver. Usually, I try to railfan inconsipucuosly (but not to garner suspicion) and I don't stay in one area for too long usually. People can be just too suspicious sometimes, but that is a good thing (but it isn't a good thing when your trying to photograph.)

I have videotaped recently at Bound Brook too and had absolutely no hassles.
Here is what I did to avert any problems for myself.
I did have a NJT permit.
But to cover all of my bases, I actually stopped at the Bound Brook Police Dept prior to filming and showed my permit to them.
The reason I did this first was incase anyone called in, the police would respond to the caller by telling them they were aware of my presence on the platform and was there with NJT permission.
I have done all of my filming on a Sunday morning.
I think weekday commuters are a little more paranoid which is understandable.

You still need to be very careful there because on one weeknight I was there just observing without my camcorder and there was an NS police officer there and he was very stern with me that I was not to get off of the platform to see the freight trains.
If I wanted to see freights go by, I was to ONLY stay on the platform.
Then he proceeded to inform me that if he ever caught me off of the platform, I would promptly be under arrest and I am telling you that this man meant it!
We did chat and he did turn out to be someehat of a nice guy but he is out to do his job and several people he caught off of the platform while we were chatting got yelled at by him with arrest being threatened.
Just be aware of that.

CNJFAN wrote:I have videotaped recently at Bound Brook too and had absolutely no hassles.
Here is what I did to avert any problems for myself.
I did have a NJT permit.
But to cover all of my bases, I actually stopped at the Bound Brook Police Dept prior to filming and showed my permit to them.
The reason I did this first was incase anyone called in, the police would respond to the caller by telling them they were aware of my presence on the platform and was there with NJT permission.
I have done all of my filming on a Sunday morning.
I think weekday commuters are a little more paranoid which is understandable.

You still need to be very careful there because on one weeknight I was there just observing without my camcorder and there was an NS police officer there and he was very stern with me that I was not to get off of the platform to see the freight trains.
If I wanted to see freights go by, I was to ONLY stay on the platform.
Then he proceeded to inform me that if he ever caught me off of the platform, I would promptly be under arrest and I am telling you that this man meant it!
We did chat and he did turn out to be someehat of a nice guy but he is out to do his job and several people he caught off of the platform while we were chatting got yelled at by him with arrest being threatened.
Just be aware of that.

Well thanks for the heads up about the NS guy.

I saw you filming yesterday at Bound Brook on the High Bridge train that gets to Bound Brook at around 5:30PM. I was wondering how you would make out there.

Then he proceeded to inform me that if he ever caught me off of the platform, I would promptly be under arrest and I am telling you that this man meant it!

The station area around Bound Brook has had its share of problems. Lots of tresspassers that cross the NS tracks to fish down at the Raritan, plus a rape a few years ago. There is a service road that runs along the Port Reading branch near the river that, when dry, is a great location for railfanning. You can actually set up next to a girder bridge over a dry wash for some great shots. Last I checked, it is not posted. Since dozens of fisherman use it, I suspect it is okay for access but no guarantees.

America Freaks Out Again...

I wonder how much time and resources are wasted by the authorities chasing around people with cameras instead engaging in real protection. I've said it before and I'll say it again:

1) Someone intent on a terroristic act is going to get whatever photos, video, etc. he needs regardless of any law, policy, restriction. There are plenty of easily concealable cameras out there.

2) While the police are distracted investigating railfans, the people who pose real threats have more opportunities.

3) If and when there is some sort of terroristic act on a railroad, the restrictions placed on legitimate people's ability to document railroads will mean far fewer photos, videotapes, etc. for investigators to look through to spot suspects in the background of somebody's shot. Countless criminal investigations have been aided that way. Part of the case against Timothy McVeigh included snapshots with him in the background near the federal building in Oklahoma City weeks before the blast.

This applies to many pursuits, not just just railfanning, in which restrictions are placed on photography.

arrow wrote:I saw you filming yesterday at Bound Brook on the High Bridge train that gets to Bound Brook at around 5:30PM. I was wondering how you would make out there.

Actually, after all was said and done, I only missed three NJT trains and at least one CSX freight. But, one of those three NJT trains was a westbound Comarrow set that I had hoped to use as my closing shot.....oh well!

But next time, I will find a way to inform local police of my permit and presence before filming...at least that will eliminate half the hassle.

I only chose weekdays for filming, as I only have limited time off from work, and wanted to get as many trains in as short a time as possible.

I almost forgot about the woman getting off a train at Metuchen who asked what I was doing, and she said "You know, that really looks kind of fishy." When I explained to her about railfanning and how, even on the NEC you would see a lot of them, she just shrugged and said something about never paying attention before.

^Yeah, some folks look at us railfans as scum of the earth sometimes.

Nick,

There was a big article about railfans and our hobbies in Times magazine a couple of issues ago....If enough people read it then maybe more people in this country would understand about our hobby. We need to get the hobby of railfanning out in the open so more of the public can be aware of what we do..
Steve

Silverliner II wrote:
Actually, after all was said and done, I only missed three NJT trains and at least one CSX freight. But, one of those three NJT trains was a westbound Comarrow set that I had hoped to use as my closing shot.....oh well!

You need to check out Port Morris. We had two solid outfits of Camaros last night. Lots of F40s and MNCR junk, too.

MNCRR Junk?? Thought most of the junk was stored or awaiting disposition?? How many Comet I's are in the yard??

Steve

Any of you see Farenheit 911 yet? Really kind of hits the nail on the head about how absurd this security stuff is. I could understand security at Newark, NYP, etc...all of the big spots. Just seems like we have more people devoted to senseless security than people running the railroad. Welcome to Bush country....

Hi!

I'm new here in the forum, but I regularly ride through the Bound Brook station and saw you. I'll have you know that one guy who got on the train (about 3:05 PM, eastbound) was going crazy about you. You had a backpack on, right? The conductor assured him the engineer would handle it and said you told him you had a permit.

I've been taking shots on the RVL and even Newark Penn since last autumn when I got a digital camera. The conductors and engineers on my regular route have all seen my camera - sometimes they're even in my shots. No one has ever said a word about it to me other than asking me what I've shot today. Some of the best shots I've ever taken have been of the lights/track/trains at the Plainfield Train Station. In a year of commuting there, I've never seen an NJ Transit cop, though.

but suggested that next time to contact them first before filming so they would know that I (or anyone else) was there

I wouldn't. The more trouble and hassle you cause them then the more they will either become apathetic or start to regret the whole photo ban nonsense in the first place. They think they can enforce a photo ban? Well let's prove them wrong by simply overwhelming their ability to respond. Eventually they'll throw in the towel when REAL crimes start becoming a problem.