Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

Moderator: GirlOnTheTrain

  by Jeff Smith
I'm going to copy this topic to both MNRR and NYC Subway. Obviously, discuss the related portion in the appropriate forum.

Fordham Ram

Some snippets (brief and fair-use):
Why Does the MTA Hate Fordham?
Leaving cost aside, the MTA still has subtly scrubbed connections to Fordham time after time. Just start by looking at your subway map. Columbia University, NYU, Hunter College and Brooklyn College all have namesake subway stops, or have the school name attached to the street name on the map. Inside other subway stations, nearly every school in the city has a sign indicating its nearby presence inside the station; except for Fordham.

Even at the Columbus Circle subway station that is just one block away from the Lincoln Center Campus the MTA has built directional signs pointing travelers to the New York Institute of Technology and John Jay College, both of which are much smaller than Fordham, with the latter being farther away from the subway stop than Fordham.
Although it sounds whiny, the writer has a point.
Restrictions on transit to-and-from Fordham is not just limited to the Metro-North. Though many current students are unaware, in 1973 the MTA discontinued 8 train service and demolished the 3rd Avenue elevated rail line. The 8 train served Fordham at three stations: Arthur Avenue/183rd Street, Fordham Road/3rd Avenue and Bronx Park Terminal (where the present-day athletic field behind Fordham Prep is located). The 8 train provided service from these Bronx stations to the west side of Manhattan along the current 1/2/3 subway lines all the way to South Ferry where the line terminated, with rush hour trains running express to Manhattan after Tremont Avenue.

Upon demolition, the MTA promised the 8 train would be replaced by an underground line that would run from Fordham Plaza in the Bronx all the way to Lower Manhattan and possibly Brooklyn via 2nd Avenue in Manhattan. However, due to the city’s financial crisis in the late 1970s, the 2nd Avenue subway was never built.

Recently, the MTA has been working on two major projects: the 2nd Avenue Subway and the East Side Access Project. East Side access, which was planned to open in 2013, would have brought the Long Island Railroad and possibly Amtrak service into Grand Central Terminal, after a hiatus since 2004 of Amtrak specifically serving Pennsylvania Station in New York City. Due to MTA budget cuts and litigation, this project will likely not be completed until 2020. The 2nd Avenue subway will be opening in segments, starting in 2016. However, the new subway will not run to The Bronx due to budget restrictions, contrary to the promise made after demolishing the 8 train.
I'm not sure all of the details above are correct. Particularly any direct service to Manhattan; I always thought it was a connection, as the Third Avenue Elevated has it's on Harlem River Bridge (the IRT line being in a tunnel).

I remember the Bronx portion of the Third Avenue El. It was torn down as it was too decrepit and expensive to rehab (there was a period around that time in the 70's where that fate befell a few subway lines). I remember taking it to the Bronx Zoo with my grandmother, and remember well the elevated portion traversing Gun Hill Road and the Bronx River Parkway from the connection to the White Plains Rd line. The subway cars were very old, basically depression era I believe, but someone correct me.

I do recall talk of the Second Avenue Subway extending to the Bronx according to the original plans. They tore down the original 2nd Avenue Elevated, and at various times were supposed to build it to replace both that line and the Manhattan portion of the Third Avenue elevated. I know there's been discussion of that line being needed now due to what I've heard are overcrowding of Webster Avenue buses in the old 3rd Avenue Bronx neighborhoods served; it seems strange with the IND Concourse line just up the hill, but that only extends as far as Bedford Park. Although not included anywhere in the current version, the original SAS plans considered a connection I think to the Concourse line, and the running East-West across the Bronx (I want to say on Tremont Avenue).

Although the SAS is only a realistic possibility at this point for Phase II (III and IV are still in doubt and years off) I do wonder what they could do something similar to an Airtrain operation along that old corridor in the Bronx; certainly more attractive than the Elevated lines of yore.

Discuss :wink: !
  by runningwithscalpels
A.) Isn't it up to Fordham to pony up the money to the MTA for signage pointing to the school? Of course if one knows the Fordham campus abuts the MNR station, there *is* signage vaguely guiding you there... "Metro North 8 blocks east" but I know that's not what the writer is complaining about.

B.) The Bx41 approximates the route of the 3rd Ave el...and it is a zoo. Thus why for my purposes in the neighborhood I either walk to where I'm going, walk up the hill to the D, or take MNR one stop to Botanical Garden. They have an SBS version of the Bx41 too...but I don't think that makes that huge a difference.

And IMO building an airtrain like thing up Webster Avenue would impede vehicular traffic too much, which I'm sure people would scream about if it were ever suggested.
  by Jeff Smith
Once an elevated is gone, it's tough to replace because of the benefits gained by the neighborhoods in the development arena. It really does clean it up. But the loss in transit would be really tough to digest today were other el's to be taken down. The Airtrain worked because it was on a highway ROW primarily (at least to Jamaica; not sure about Howard Beach). So yeah, opposition would be fierce. Replacement is not even a blip on the radar with so many other priorities.
  by Kamen Rider
The author of that piece is full of BS.

Many schools in Queens are nowhere near train service. Queens College, St Johns, Queensboro.
Queens and St. John's also have larger enrolment than Fordham.

Fordham has two railroad stations abutting it's property and Fordham Road on the Concourse Line is within one mile of any part of their campus. the closest point being only .4 of a mile from the B and D.

St. John's and Queens have no direct rail connections, and their nearest stops are .6 of a mile and a mile (respectively) from the nearest point on their properties.