New York, Westchester & Boston NYW&B / NH West Farms Jct

Apologies for the slight topic derail, though this has to do with the NYW&B:

Looking at Bing Maps' birds eye view of the Bronx, specifically the area immediately south of E. 180th to where the NYW&B and the NYNH&H met up, and noticed this:



Is this merely a glitch in displaying the satellite / aerial photography? If not, given how old the imagery from the likes of Google Earth and Bing, do you think it is still there, and is there any way to [LEGALLY] access the location?

EDIT: Wait, the E. 174th Street overpass that goes over the location has sidewalks. Note to self: tale trip down there to check it out. Preferably winter when there are no leaves obscuring the potential view.

Didn't that short stretch of the ex-NYW&B survive into Penn Central days as a link between the national rail network and NYC Transit?

Ridgefielder wrote:Didn't that short stretch of the ex-NYW&B survive into Penn Central days as a link between the national rail network and NYC Transit?

Dunno, but look at this:

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/mainframeco ... 4?i=41&s=1

A Frank Phuler view showing the end of track. The NYW&B two track ROW continued south where it crossed the Bronx River and paralleled the NH ROW to the Harlem River Terminal. A single track connection was established in 1955 for eqquipment and material transfer. See the other 1955 views of the 3rd Ave El cars parked on the ROW for scrapping.

From the look of it, continued down from 180th to this point, given the tracks snaking off in the background.

A lot of good NYWB/post-NYWB photos on that site.

Looks like the main line was still a 4-track ROW at the time. The background looks like the connection to the Dyre Av line.

I'm not sure as to the when or why, but the catenary bridge in the foreground was truncated, with a new upright installed (or the existing upright relocated inward). Earlier photographs show the bridge spanning all six tracks. The anchor bridge in the background spanned eight or so - it was right at the location where the two-track NYW&B widened to a four-track line.



Yes, the West Farms Junction connection survived inclusion into Penn Central.

Noel Weaver has often told the story of how he piloted a Sperry car from Oak Point over to West Farms, and thence over the "NYWB" to 180th Street Station on the NYCTA, where he turned over the car to a transit motorman. Noel?

Really is a shame that part of the railroad went away.

-otto-

Otto Vondrak wrote:Really is a shame that part of the railroad went away.-otto-

All for a bus depot. I'm not sure what condition the bridge was in; I remember using that street as a short-cut on ocassion going to/from the BRP to the Cross-Bronx or Sheridan.

If you think about it, it gave the system some flexibility for future expansion. Wasn't it part of the 70's NYCT plan for the SAS?

Travelsonic wrote:Apologies for the slight topic derail, though this has to do with the NYW&B:

Looking at Bing Maps' birds eye view of the Bronx, specifically the area immediately south of E. 180th to where the NYW&B and the NYNH&H met up, and noticed this:



Is this merely a glitch in displaying the satellite / aerial photography? If not, given how old the imagery from the likes of Google Earth and Bing, do you think it is still there, and is there any way to [LEGALLY] access the location?

EDIT: Wait, the E. 174th Street overpass that goes over the location has sidewalks. Note to self: tale trip down there to check it out. Preferably winter when there are no leaves obscuring the potential view.

I believe that catenary tower is pictured in Otto's book. I thought it was interesting to still see it standing standing in the photo in the book, which was taken in 69 I believe.

Warren

In case anyone is wondering why the ex-NYW&B (a) didn't remain connected to the New Haven's Harlem River Branch when the NYW&B was torn up, and (b) why it had to be reconnected, the simplest answer is the IRT's 3rd Avenue El.

Circa 1907, the through passenger service connection between the New Haven's Harlem River Branch and the IRT's 2nd Avenue El ended. There was some shuttle service between the Harlem River terminal in The Bronx and the 129th Station in Manhattan. This explains why the New Haven had Forney locomotives and El-sized cars for steam service on the branch. New Haven cars (and engines?) showed up as far south as South Ferry, and 2nd Avenue El cars (and engines?) made it as far as Morris Park on the New Haven for race track specials. Although the passenger connection ended, the rail connection did not, and this served as the NYCTA's connection between the 2nd & 3rd Avenue Els and the outside railroad world. The 1939 World's Fair cars for the IRT, I believe, were delivered over this routing.

In 1955, service on the 3rd Avenue El south of 149th Street in The Bronx was ended and the elevated line dismantled, which included the New Haven connection. A new outside-world connection was needed, and the ex-NYW&B trackage still existed. The New York City Transit Authority already operated between 180th Street and Dyre Avenue. A hand-thrown switch, an electric lock and two derails made everything workable. NYCTA hopper cars would routinely be operated between this connection and the Branford Steam Railroad at Pine Orchard, Connecticut via the New Haven. The 1964 World's Fair cars were delivered over this routing, although to get to the now-disconnected Flushing Line (no more 2nd Avenue El operating over the Queensboro Bridge) required a routing via Coney Island via the IRT, IND and BMT.

The NYCTA hopper cars did not have AAR-approved reporting marks, but were operated over the New Haven by contract move, thus exempting them from AAR interchange rules. It probably looked a little strange to see New York City Transit Authority hopper cars rumbling through New Haven Union Station on a passing freight train.

That's great background; I do remember reading somewhere about the 2nd Av el operating over the QB bridge, but not the NH. It's a shame that connection was lost; it may have salvaged the NYW&B operation (but of course, it was before the NYW&B operation began, right?).

Although this is a NYC topic, it sounds very similar to the Put connection to the 9th Av el over the swing bridge on the Harlem River, which was eventually cut back to allow the el to connect to the Jerome Av IRT.

Harlem River Branch electrification killed the through passenger service connection. Steam operated local trains were El-sized cars and locomotives, but electric stuff was full size. Nope, no NYW&B service onto the 2nd Avenue El - the cars were both too wide and too heavy.

Don't know the exact year, but the 2nd Avenue El lasted long into the NYW&B era.

I was referring to the 1907 termination as pre-NYW&B. I'm not sure of the voltage or gauge compatibility, but could they have used street cars?

I believe the 2nd Avenue El was electrified circa 1905, thus ending all steam-powered service except, perhaps, the New Haven shuttle service to 129th Street. Track gauge was Standard (4' 8 1/2"), electrification consisted of overrunning third rail (El style with gravity-powered drop shoes) powered at 600 VDC; clearance gauge was 9 feet.

Sorry, no street cars since there was neither overhead wire nor underground third rail.

Thanks. Even if that service had continued, I'm sure the El would not have survived in any case.

Statkowski wrote:Harlem River Branch electrification killed the through passenger service connection. Steam operated local trains were El-sized cars and locomotives, but electric stuff was full size. Nope, no NYW&B service onto the 2nd Avenue El - the cars were both too wide and too heavy.

Don't know the exact year, but the 2nd Avenue El lasted long into the NYW&B era.

Actually I think the 2nd Avenue El outlasted the NYW&B; believe it was abandonded in 1940.