New York, Westchester & Boston NYW&B Main Thread

[Noel Weaver]

I have several books about the Westchester and all of them provide much interesting information but they also leave some questions unanswered. The books that I refer to here are Westchester's Forgotten Railway, Expanded Third Edition, by Roger Arcara, Westchester County's Million Dollar a Mile Railroad by Robert Bang, New York, Westchester & Boston Railway Company 1906 - 1946 by Robert Bang, Forgotten Railroads Through Westchester County by Robert Bang, John Frank, George Kowanski and Otto Vondrak and finally J. P. Morgan's Magnificent Mistake, the New York, Westchester & Boston Railway by Herbert Harwood.
One unfortunate thing with all of these fine books is the duplication of photos, some of them appear in all of these books.
Some of the things that I have observed from a careful study of the photos of these books, most of the photos that I examined were in the Robert Bang hard cover book and the page numbers will refer to this book unless otherwise noted.
Page 37 to 52 and others the photos of the exteriors of various passenger stations I note that not one of them has any exterior lighting associated to them and this is weird on a line that had as much passenger operation as this one did and ran much of it 24 hours of the day as well. Also noted is the presence of gas lights on some of the near by streets. Page 107 bottom photo, I think this was much later than 1940, the wires are gone in the photo and the catenary bridges are also go, probably more in to the city ownership of this section of line. Page 111 top photo to the left of the steam engine their appears to be a temporary connection of some sort maybe for track equipment to be moved. Page 111 bottom photo I took a close look at the activity around the more or less abandoned station and in addition to an active newstand there is also a sign advertiseing a real estate office which I can assume to be in another section of this building and probably still in use. I guess even after the railroad had shut down they were still getting some income from the abandoned buildings that had outside business of some sort in them and this might have continued until the properties were finally sold or disposed of. The photos also posed a question on my part, did these cars have a luggage rack over the seats in them or not, the pictures conflict, page 68 of the Bang book shows a rack over the seats while page 105 of Forgotten Railroads shows no luggage rack? Maybe the New Haven owned cars had them while the Westchester owned original cars did not but this is just a guess on my part. I never rode the former Westchester cars on the New Haven that I know of, they were strictly used out of Boston in local service. Finally I have a New Haven Railroad freight symbol book in my collection dated April, 1935 which shows the local freight job that went to White Plains. It was listed out of Oak Point six days a week (Except Sunday) at 9:00 AM to White Plains and return.
For a railroad that was abandoned in excess of 70 years ago this railroad has had a lot of coverage and in my opinion it was well deserved.
Noel Weaver

[Jeff Smith]

Quick FYI; I put a "shadow" topic of this in the NYS forum in case anyone looks there. I did this by moving it there, and then moving it back to NH.

[chnhrr]

Some of the things that I have observed from a careful study of the photos of these books, most of the photos that I examined were in the Robert Bang hard cover book and the page numbers will refer to this book unless otherwise noted.
Page 37 to 52 and others the photos of the exteriors of various passenger stations I note that not one of them has any exterior lighting associated to them and this is weird on a line that had as much passenger operation as this one did and ran much of it 24 hours of the day as well. Also noted is the presence of gas lights on some of the near by streets.

Noel

It appears the stations had most of the incandescent lighting on the platforms. The canopy lighting was placed in between the roof joists as shown in this picture of 180th Street station. The lamp posts shown in the picture below were located on the platforms at Thrid Street, Mt. Vernon and possibly placed at 12 foot on center. The detail photo to the right is from Heathcote. I read somewhere that these lamp post cost $12 per unit back in the day. Some stations had bracketed light fixtures at the front entry doors, but it seems the NYW&B relied on street lighting to provide illumination in the immediate area. Foot-candle requirements were a lot less back then. The older stations on the Harlem River Branch probably initially had gas fixtures.

Chuck

[Noel Weaver]

Yes, I saw lights on the platforms and other areas but I did not see any lights on the exterior of the buildings that faced the sidewalk or the street. In years later the New Haven had lights of some sort outside the building and not on platforms nor work areas. Look at the pictures of the exterior of the buildings, I doubt if you will find any exterior lights.
Noel Weaver

[pbass]

Quaker Ridge had exterior lighting at both entrances.Seems to be this was the only one to have those lights.

[pbass]

i'm always seeking new information on the NYWB.I reread my printed materials frequently and in doing so,while going through Forgotten RR's Through Westchester Co.on page 115 i found something that might be of interest.At Dyre Ave looking north up NYWB track 4 north of the E233rd St.bridge between the catenarys is a dark figure that is a NY subway signal and perpendicular to it on NYWB track 2 appears to be another subway signal.It is my assumption that in anticipation of the NYWB restoring service,this signal was placed there.Since the ROW now belongs to the City of New York,they would be the host railroad and their rules would apply as to keep a uniformity in operations,safety,and avoid any conflicting signal aspects.Judging by the photographs taken at the time of startup of subway operations,if I'm correct in my assumption,then this is the only subway signal placed for NYWB service.I'm open to criticism and suggestions.

[CannaScrews]

View of the 180th St station in The Bronx from the White Plains line subway heading north.
Date is around 1950.

Note the two car Dyre Ave shuttle in front of the apartment house.

[Kurt]

I have been in the office building at East 180th Street. Not much to see inside. It was being used as a dispatchers office as well as training facility. It is a bit weird in its layout. The second floor looks like was gutted at one point, with another staircase built near one of the arched windows on the south side of the building. The top floor is unfinished, it has a rough concrete finish (very bumpy). Right now it is mostly empty with the renovation/preservation work being done.

Also of interest, there was a fire in the old Wykagyl station last night. New Rochelle Fire Department made an excellent stop. The building is still standing, and looks repairable. The platform areas remaining underneath are untouched by the fire. http://www.lohud.com/article/20120324/N ... rontpage|s

[skippernyc]

The Webster Ave Station still exists (I think). I passed by several times in the 1980s, it had become a grocery store among a row of shops, like Wykygyl station. I was identifiable by looking at the curved roof behind the store's sign.

[Otto Vondrak]

I guess I should answer Noel since I published two of the books he is discussing.

One unfortunate thing with all of these fine books is the duplication of photos, some of them appear in all of these books.

This is true. And intentional in some instances. For instance, some folks may only buy one book, or may not have access to the other books. So we intentionally included some photos that have been published elsewhere in order to complete the narrative. For instance, re-running a photo of Port Chester terminal, or White Plains terminal, where there's only one good known photo that illustrates the scene. Sometimes new information comes to light after the fact. For instance, we identified Harlem River Terminal Motorman Jim Lahey posing with his train (see photo at http://nywbry.com/gallery_people.php ). If you have a copy of "New York, Westchester & Boston Railway Company: 1906-1946," this is the unidentified motorman on page 82.

Page 107 bottom photo, I think this was much later than 1940, the wires are gone in the photo and the catenary bridges are also go, probably more in to the city ownership of this section of line.

You are most likely correct. This photo probably dates to at least 1942 when the copper wire was harvested from the former NYWB.

Page 111 top photo to the left of the steam engine their appears to be a temporary connection of some sort maybe for track equipment to be moved. Page 111 bottom photo I took a close look at the activity around the more or less abandoned station and in addition to an active newstand there is also a sign advertiseing a real estate office which I can assume to be in another section of this building and probably still in use. I guess even after the railroad had shut down they were still getting some income from the abandoned buildings that had outside business of some sort in them and this might have continued until the properties were finally sold or disposed of.

You are correct that for as long as the stations were standing and still owned by the railroad, they were being leased out to get whatever income they could. I remember reading somewhere that the large Westchester Ave. terminal in White Plains was being leased to a flower shop for a brief period after abandonment and before it was torn down.

The photos also posed a question on my part, did these cars have a luggage rack over the seats in them or not, the pictures conflict, page 68 of the Bang book shows a rack over the seats while page 105 of Forgotten Railroads shows no luggage rack? Maybe the New Haven owned cars had them while the Westchester owned original cars did not but this is just a guess on my part.

Good eye, Noel, I can't say I had noticed this detail before.

Many folks shared with me materials about the NYWB after the books were published that I tried to include here:

http://nywbry.com/gallery.php

-otto-

[CNJ999]

Guys, as I recall at the beginning of this forum there was talk of possibly marking the 100th anniversary of the opening of the NYW&B with a meeting, or some such. Has anything ever come of that idea? I cannot recall seeing any mention about this in quite some time in these pages. If there is something actually brewing, I'd certainly like to hear about it and attend.

CNJ999

[Jeff Smith]

I separated the Anniversary thread in a fit of organizational spasms.....

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 5#p1030825

[Noel Weaver]

I guess I should answer Noel since I published two of the books he is discussing.

One unfortunate thing with all of these fine books is the duplication of photos, some of them appear in all of these books.

This is true. And intentional in some instances. For instance, some folks may only buy one book, or may not have access to the other books. So we intentionally included some photos that have been published elsewhere in order to complete the narrative. For instance, re-running a photo of Port Chester terminal, or White Plains terminal, where there's only one good known photo that illustrates the scene. Sometimes new information comes to light after the fact. For instance, we identified Harlem River Terminal Motorman Jim Lahey posing with his train (see photo at http://nywbry.com/gallery_people.php ). If you have a copy of "New York, Westchester & Boston Railway Company: 1906-1946," this is the unidentified motorman on page 82.

Page 107 bottom photo, I think this was much later than 1940, the wires are gone in the photo and the catenary bridges are also go, probably more in to the city ownership of this section of line.

You are most likely correct. This photo probably dates to at least 1942 when the copper wire was harvested from the former NYWB.

Page 111 top photo to the left of the steam engine their appears to be a temporary connection of some sort maybe for track equipment to be moved. Page 111 bottom photo I took a close look at the activity around the more or less abandoned station and in addition to an active newstand there is also a sign advertiseing a real estate office which I can assume to be in another section of this building and probably still in use. I guess even after the railroad had shut down they were still getting some income from the abandoned buildings that had outside business of some sort in them and this might have continued until the properties were finally sold or disposed of.

You are correct that for as long as the stations were standing and still owned by the railroad, they were being leased out to get whatever income they could. I remember reading somewhere that the large Westchester Ave. terminal in White Plains was being leased to a flower shop for a brief period after abandonment and before it was torn down.

The photos also posed a question on my part, did these cars have a luggage rack over the seats in them or not, the pictures conflict, page 68 of the Bang book shows a rack over the seats while page 105 of Forgotten Railroads shows no luggage rack? Maybe the New Haven owned cars had them while the Westchester owned original cars did not but this is just a guess on my part.

Good eye, Noel, I can't say I had noticed this detail before.

Many folks shared with me materials about the NYWB after the books were published that I tried to include here:

http://nywbry.com/gallery.php

-otto-

Thank you, Otto, please let me make it clear, my remarks take nothing away from these well researched and well produced books about a railroad that has been gone for a long time. I highly recommend all three of them and also the Harwood book as well. This railroad was most underrated of about anything that I can recall. It was way ahead of its time and although it probably should not ever have been built, it should never have been abandoned and torn up either. I can only imagine its usefulness if it was still with us today.
Noel Weaver

[fordhamroad]

Hi Noel & Otto -
-The lights and luggage racks --
-NYW&B fans are sharp readers of the limited range of pictures we possess. A lot of good observations in this thread. I had also noticed the difference in interior configuration.
- it seems to me that the earliest cars had luggage racks with electric lights in the center of the roof.
-later pictures of cars have the luggage racks removed and lights placed over the passenger seats on each side.
-most probably an update by the line's own shops
-electric technology, bulbs, wires etc was still in an evolving state around 1911 when the original cars were designed. The platinum filament light bulb was invented in 1910 to replace carbonized wood or thread filamants. Bulbs were 25-40 watt. By the early 1920's, much better and more durable wiring and bulbs would have been available for retrofitting. Brighter lights, directly over the seats so commuters could read their newspapers would have been a welcome improvement.
-but -- like most of the NYW&B records, the shop records were long junked.
-that's my speculation.

Best wishes


Roger Wines

[fordhamroad]

-Roof Vents on NYW&B Cars

-Another interesting detail in the old photos concerns the roof vents on the NYW&B MU cars. I have noticed three different types. Any idea when applied, why the changes?

Roger Wines