New US budget will kill Amtrak

After hearing it over the news today, I'm starting to feel that this maybe the one time that Amtrak may not make it. That assumption brings me to this, if Amtrak runs Penn Station (PSCC/ Zone A including Harold), and if it should shut down, who will run all of this?? I do know that LIRR works along side with Amtrak in these areas, but I would assume that some things would have to be done in order to allow a full transition to have LIRR employees run all of zone A entirely. Even more importantly is when you include NJ Transit into the mix. They use both the Hudson and East River tunnels, so who would be responsible for the control of those operations? And this would be just the tip of the iceberg!! Lets not forget the very neccessary safety improvements that need to be added to the tunnels!!

Once again, not to get too political, but the Government continues to illustrate it's lack of interest in maintaining a national passenger RR. This is why places such as Japan and Europe have such excellent rail service including high speed trains such as the TGV. The Government determined that there is a viable future for rail transport and invested in it heavily. The US is directly the opposite not realizing that rail service, especially commuter operations are a public service that can bring little or no profits to encourage private ownerships. If Amtrak folds, it will be a total disaster for this country, and a mess here in New York City region. It's really irresponsible of Bush to even think of such a thing. It doesn't surprise me though, Amtrak has always been a sore spot for the Government.

somewhat of a tangent from the topic...

I always thought this country would be perfect for a high speed train that would run coast to coast. I know we currently have Amtrak's Acela...but that's not really practical running up and down the east coast between Boston and DC, with all of the other traffic. I know something like a coast to coast high speed train would mean electrifying thousands of miles of track...but it would be worth it. Personally, I have noting against flying....but, if there was a high speed train that could get you from say NY to LA or San Fran in a day (as opposed to 3 days by the Amtrak Superliners), it would pay off...especially for all the people who refuse to fly. Tourism would be up in the country, and business would be totally different too, with business men who would take the high speed train across the country where normally they wouldn't be able to scoot across the country because of their fear of flying.

On a note more directly linked to the subject of this thread, I hope Amtrak doesn't go under...for two reasons: 1) the most important reason, I am applying for a job with Amtrak. I don't plan on retiring with them, but I do hope to be able to work for approximately 5 years with them to gain experience. 2) Because I was planning a train trip around the country on Amtrak...starting in NY, down to Florida...overnight in Florida, take the train across from Florida to LA, possibly stopping in "Nawlins" overnight, and then spending a night or two in LA. Then, taking the train up the Cali coast up to Seattle..overnight in Seattle. Then take the train from Seattle to Chicago...2 nights in Chicago. Then take the train to DC via the Horseshoe Curve route (I've done it once before, it's friggen beautiful!). Finally from DC back home to NY.

Don't plan on making any of your connections!!!

Amtrak is notoriously late.

They're late arriving and they're even later departing.

And the best part . . . .they either don't make up any lost time along the way, or, whatever time they DO make up, they lose again before you arrive at your destination.

All along they used the excuse that handling the mail caused their lateness and that they were dropping mail-handling service to improve their "on-time" schedule.

Now that they no longer carry the mail, it's amazing . . . . they're still late!

No one loves trains more than I, but Amtrak sure leaves a lot to be desired in long-distance train service.

Dave Keller

there is no way the major railroads would pick up national service is there? Do we see BNSF, UP, CSX, NS all dividing up the Amtrak equipment and going back into business? This wouldn't happen would it? Could you imagine the Acela locos painted black with white stripes and horses... or the Gennies in yellow and gray, or burnt orange and dark green... wow the possibilities would be amazing...for photo buffs

Newsday pointed out that the President tries to cut Amtrak funding out every year, only to have it restored by Congress. The budget is in for some tweaking. Who wants to be the final bad guy that lets Amtrak go belly-up? Once again, we must stay tuned to see the final federal budget incarnation.

My brother in law recently traveled from Seattle to New York on Amtrak, and reported that it was like staying in a low-class motel. There was atmosphere, but not what you'd pay those prices to receive. Perhaps Amtrak is unfixable. George Bush is a moron, but perhaps this is one place where even he may be correct.

This is a huge topic beyond the scope of what should be in this forum, and I can only guess at the flaming about to begin or going on in the Amtrak forum.

There are many problems with Amtrak, but it has been screwed up from day 1 and continuously underfunded, held hostage to the whims of the freight rr's, and of course, sabotaging it's management and screwing its employees will get you a problematic railroad. Ever seen how they do it in Japan or Europe? Ever compare what they get in Fed $$ compared to Aviation or Highway? If Bush truly wanted to fix it, then alot of rebuilding would have to follow the tearing down. Guess everyone forgot how nice it was having a national railroad after they grounded all aviation post 9/11.

This will get ugly, for the employees and the poor folks riding it. Maybe when it's gone it'll be missed, at least by others besides the freight roads missing their cash cow/liability deflector - Amtrak...

krispy wrote:This is a huge topic beyond the scope of what should be in this forum, and I can only guess at the flaming about to begin or going on in the Amtrak forum.

There are many problems with Amtrak, but it has been screwed up from day 1 and continuously underfunded, held hostage to the whims of the freight rr's, and of course, sabotaging it's management and screwing its employees will get you a problematic railroad. Ever seen how they do it in Japan or Europe? Ever compare what they get in Fed $$ compared to Aviation or Highway? If Bush truly wanted to fix it, then alot of rebuilding would have to follow the tearing down. Guess everyone forgot how nice it was having a national railroad after they grounded all aviation post 9/11.

This will get ugly, for the employees and the poor folks riding it. Maybe when it's gone it'll be missed, at least by others besides the freight roads missing their cash cow/liability deflector - Amtrak...

It will missed indirectly by the riders of the LIRR and NJT too. Penn Station will still have to be maintained and so will the tracks and tunnels,
if there is no more Amtrak, the riders of LIRR and NJT will be paying for
this with huge fare increases
As for be screwed up, Amtrak is not nearly as screwed up as the LIRR has
been for years.
Noel Weaver

There is no hope in CSX NS or any other Freight handler in wanting to run revenue passenger trains any more as there is no money in it for them.

If the lame government were to make a desent deal with the major freight haulers (CSX NS UP BNSF) maby they will run some form of passenger trains, espically here in the north east.

with some aid from washington i can see the NEC be ran by CSX or NS, or maby even both?

but like i said, they would need some funding from the national government to make this feisable.


as for NYP and Sunny side, the LIRR and MTA better not get a hold of it unless they clean up there games of tossing deffication at the rotary oslator. not only will fares sky rocket, the MTA &LIRR will make sunny side a joke for NS or CSX to even park there inter state passengers trains(?)

there is a market for long distance rail travel, out "free" countury has just not found it again, after out inter state hwy's were built, and plains took to the skys.

If any part of Amtrak survives, with the core of today's Amtrak management running it, it will be the Northeast Corridor, and Penn is a crucial part of that. But as to running operations in and out of Penn will pass to mostly the LI and also NJT, and guess what kids, they do that already, and they do it very well...

Clearing up misconceptions: First, no freight operator will ever run pax trains again, ever. They interfere with the movement of their trains, and will stab an Amtrak without thought or accountablility, hence the on time performance of Amtrak. They will however, plunder Amtrak with fees and $$ for trackwork, while using Amtrak to shield themselves from lawsuits, such as crossing fatalities. The freight roads enjoy a comfortable relationship with the FRA and Uncle Sam, more so than any other mode of transportation. The former president of CSX is a high ranking member of Bush's cabinent.

And not being one to normally disagree with Mr. Weaver, but I've been working with the Amtrak folks for long time, starting at Harold and then at PSCC, and I have to disagree about which is the more screwed to work for. I do not denigrate them, but pity them for the amount of crap and abuse that they take on a daily basis, worse than anything I've seen in both aviation and railroading, or even in the military. And I have tremendous respect for them, especially the ones who stay with them and not flee to the LI, NJT or the Mets for better pay and benefits, and a better working atmosphere.

Some of the news coverage said that if Amtrak shut down, the N.E. corridor would remain in operation. When they talk about shutting Amtrak down, they supposedly mean except for the N.E. Corridor, which is the only really viable part of Amtrak.

Some of the news coverage said that if Amtrak shut down, the N.E. corridor would remain in operation. When they talk about shutting Amtrak down, they supposedly mean except for the N.E. Corridor, which is the only really viable part of Amtrak.

If you really look at the books, none of Amtrak is viable. On paper it's a money burning machine, just like any other railroad.. (except that it isn't). Amtrak operates outside of any rail transport company. In reality it functions as well as any other corporation (private or public) that has suffered from poor leadership (that's you Mr. Warrington et al) drastic under capitalization (remember that a RR is a capital consumption machine) and poor internal structure (the Rail Passenger Act of 1971). I have not rode an Amtrak train outside of the NEC, (which are nothing to write home about) but i got to were I needed to go.. eventually and that's what really matters to me.

We must really understand why Amtrak was created. First, Amtrak functions best as a policy blocker. It shields the government from the responsibilty of ensuring that a passenger market exists, it shields companies from liaility when the sh*%t hits the fan (like when a derailment occurs) and it also eliminates private industry's responsibilty to the American tax-payer. None of its business are profitable and will continue to require massive subsidy to continue into the future. The armed forces don't make money and I would argue waste quite a bit of it...

I am so sick of listening to the government talk about reform, whether it be Social Securty, tort reform, or other BS. Perhaps we should just shut down the LIRR, MNR, & NYCTA, because even those would not operate without massive amounts of money from the state to keep them running. The LIRR has the worst fare recovery of all the MTA agencies for example. It wasted billions on sh*#$ty M7,C3 & DE/DM fiascoes, it still does not offer a one seat ride from non electric portions, can't run trains when it snows or rains... NYCTA trains are getting dirtier, fares are going up (again), "incidents" happen nearly every day, commute times are getting longer due to all kinds of stuff, MNR can't run trains in the winter, when it does they are shorter etc. CONDOT can't decide on what to do with 30+ year old equipment... This is just in our backyard folks. This country faces a real crisis in transport for the present and future. We cannot base our decisons simply on the basis of "it is not profitable".