• New Mass Rail Car Builder! (or not) - Vertex Rail Mfg

  • General discussion about locomotives, rolling stock, and equipment
General discussion about locomotives, rolling stock, and equipment

Moderator: John_Perkowski

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  by F-line to Dudley via Park
 
KEN PATRICK wrote:i use questions as a simple method of directing thinking to non-factual statements. 'brow-beating' because i point out some incorrect statements? not so. i'm of the opinion that some posts are supercilious in attempting to portray railroad knowledge. being dismissive of my posts reflects shallow thinking. althought uncomfortable for some to contemplate, there are many instances where posts herein are not reality-driven. this i believe is a shining example of that. ken patrick
Except...passing off your own internal monologue as fact is no better than what you're accusing others of doing. Especially when you won't accept factual counterarguments vs. your own gut feeling, or when you double-down on "industry experience" as trumping cited factual counterarguments. You have copped to this habit in the past, so do not think we aren't well-conditioned here on RR.net to desire some corroboration when you start riffing like that.

I will say it again: why are we speaking in such absolute assumptions when corroboration of facts is as easy as sending an e-mail for those so very well-invested in the topic to push such strong opinions on the topic? Why should others be your research assistant to a point you're pushing over them? We go through this every time. Every time people shrug "Ken, why are you yelling at us? We don't know the bloody answers." Is it too much to ask to back up the ferocity of one's dissenting opinion with just a smidge of independent corroboration for a change? "Industry experience" is not some black box nobody else can see inside of. Facts are transparent and independently verifiable. You seem to have a chronic reluctance towards that independent verification thing and validity of.
  by daylight4449
 
F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:
KEN PATRICK wrote:i use questions as a simple method of directing thinking to non-factual statements. 'brow-beating' because i point out some incorrect statements? not so. i'm of the opinion that some posts are supercilious in attempting to portray railroad knowledge. being dismissive of my posts reflects shallow thinking. althought uncomfortable for some to contemplate, there are many instances where posts herein are not reality-driven. this i believe is a shining example of that. ken patrick
Except...passing off your own internal monologue as fact is no better than what you're accusing others of doing. Especially when you won't accept factual counterarguments vs. your own gut feeling, or when you double-down on "industry experience" as trumping cited factual counterarguments. You have copped to this habit in the past, so do not think we aren't well-conditioned here on RR.net to desire some corroboration when you start riffing like that.

I will say it again: why are we speaking in such absolute assumptions when corroboration of facts is as easy as sending an e-mail for those so very well-invested in the topic to push such strong opinions on the topic? Why should others be your research assistant to a point you're pushing over them? We go through this every time. Every time people shrug "Ken, why are you yelling at us? We don't know the bloody answers." Is it too much to ask to back up the ferocity of one's dissenting opinion with just a smidge of independent corroboration for a change? "Industry experience" is not some black box nobody else can see inside of. Facts are transparent and independently verifiable. You seem to have a chronic reluctance towards that independent verification thing and validity of.
Couldn't have said it better myself...
  by daylight4449
 
KEN PATRICK wrote:i use questions as a simple method of directing thinking to non-factual statements. 'brow-beating' because i point out some incorrect statements? not so. i'm of the opinion that some posts are supercilious in attempting to portray railroad knowledge. being dismissive of my posts reflects shallow thinking. althought uncomfortable for some to contemplate, there are many instances where posts herein are not reality-driven. this i believe is a shining example of that. ken patrick
Just thought of something... Ken, those garbage containers that you designed never got anywhere. In essence it's just one massive cluster-f**k. So, you think in all of your glory you have the right to try and rank someone over an issue you know nothing about? Well, assuming Mr. Bigda is reading this, he's probably thinking of how much of a blowhard you're portraying yourself as. And why would he bother with you at this point? So, here are the options at your disposal:

1) Stop living in your past failures and act like the intellectual you try to portray yourself as
2) Find the nearest sand pit and just stick your head in the ground, stay there and shut up
3) Continue acting like a whining little fool and making yourself look bad
4) Take a page out of Mitt's book;
Image

You take all that time to go and come up with your response, which isn't even grammatically correct (maybe your shift key broke from lack of use?) and you act like the genius? Please... Where you take a day and a half, I can think of this whole rant in ten minutes. I can keep this mean-streak going all night if it makes you feel better... In essence, checkmate.
  by Safetee
 
Is this WWE or am I missing something?
  by Rockingham Racer
 
Why do you folks even respond to this guy? You're all getting sucked in. He's been on my "ignore list" for months now. It's not worth the psychic energy to engage in a conversation with him, IMO.
  by tahawus84
 
you guys take this stuff to seriously. If you dont agree with him just ignore him. Who cares
  by Cosmo
 
Agreed!
Mr Patrick, please assume any and all responses to your future conjectures will, in your own opinion, be "dismissive" and save us the trouble by simply refraining from hitting "SEND."
Thank you, and have a pleasant tomorrow.
  by Sir Ray
 
I'll send the dang e-mail to Vertex, the worst that could happen is they ignore me (well, they could spam my e-mail address, so I'll use a "expendable" e-mail).

So, what exactly do we want to know, and how much of it would likely be considered proprietary by Vertex such that they wouldn't disclose the info?
"What will be your main suppliers for running gear and major car body structural elements?" "We'd rather not say"
"Have you had the fixtures and templates to product these tank car fabricated yet? How much did it cost? "We'd rather not say"
"From whom are you getting the financing for this operation?" "We'd rather not say"
"Do you have enough customers lined up to make this a viable business?" "We'd rather not say"
"Are you getting considerable enough tax breaks to make production in Worchester workable?" "We'd rather not say"

Any other questions I should ask so we can get some solid non-answers back?
  by daylight4449
 
Sir Ray wrote:I'll send the dang e-mail to Vertex, the worst that could happen is they ignore me (well, they could spam my e-mail address, so I'll use a "expendable" e-mail).

So, what exactly do we want to know, and how much of it would likely be considered proprietary by Vertex such that they wouldn't disclose the info?
"What will be your main suppliers for running gear and major car body structural elements?" "We'd rather not say"
"Have you had the fixtures and templates to product these tank car fabricated yet? How much did it cost? "We'd rather not say"
"From whom are you getting the financing for this operation?" "We'd rather not say"
"Do you have enough customers lined up to make this a viable business?" "We'd rather not say"
"Are you getting considerable enough tax breaks to make production in Worchester workable?" "We'd rather not say"

Any other questions I should ask so we can get some solid non-answers back?
I couldn't say that those don't cover the bases, but without shooting the email, who's can say there won't be answers?
  by Cosmo
 
You forgot "WHERE is/will be your facility?" :wink:
  by Tower35
 
Instead of analyzing what could happen or guessing about what is going on and beating this to death, it's very easy to contact Mr. Bigda and ask him questions. He is easily accessible through email or by phone through the Boxcar Services website and is a very polite and personable man. I've met the man and he is a straight shooter and an accomplished professional with an already highly successful car leasing business. He may not be able to answer all questions due to business confidentiality restrictions but he'll tell you what he can. That's why I laugh at some postings by "wannabe be in the know" amateur industry "experts." If he's reading this dialogue he is either having a great laugh or is irked by the twisting non-factual rumors.
  by Sir Ray
 
Tower35 wrote:Instead of analyzing what could happen or guessing about what is going on and beating this to death, it's very easy to contact Mr. Bigda and ask him questions. He is easily accessible through email or by phone through the Boxcar Services website and is a very polite and personable man. I've met the man and he is a straight shooter and an accomplished professional with an already highly successful car leasing business. He may not be able to answer all questions due to business confidentiality restrictions but he'll tell you what he can. That's why I laugh at some postings by "wannabe be in the know" amateur industry "experts." If he's reading this dialogue he is either having a great laugh or is irked by the twisting non-factual rumors.
So we don't flood the poor guy with e-mails, I send the e-mail, but what questions should be asked of the ones I said before, and others (including the new one, where will the facility be?).
  by daylight4449
 
Sir Ray wrote:
Tower35 wrote:Instead of analyzing what could happen or guessing about what is going on and beating this to death, it's very easy to contact Mr. Bigda and ask him questions. He is easily accessible through email or by phone through the Boxcar Services website and is a very polite and personable man. I've met the man and he is a straight shooter and an accomplished professional with an already highly successful car leasing business. He may not be able to answer all questions due to business confidentiality restrictions but he'll tell you what he can. That's why I laugh at some postings by "wannabe be in the know" amateur industry "experts." If he's reading this dialogue he is either having a great laugh or is irked by the twisting non-factual rumors.
So we don't flood the poor guy with e-mails, I send the e-mail, but what questions should be asked of the ones I said before, and others (including the new one, where will the facility be?).
The ones you outlined sound fine... Covers all the important bases. I wouldn't be surprised if with at least one of those questions, he goes along the lines of "If we didn't already figure it out, why would we be doing it?", and that goes along with Tower's assessment regarding confidentiality restrictions...
  by Sir Ray
 
daylight4449 wrote:
Sir Ray wrote:
Tower35 wrote:Instead of analyzing what could happen or guessing about what is going on and beating this to death, it's very easy to contact Mr. Bigda and ask him questions. He is easily accessible through email or by phone through the Boxcar Services website and is a very polite and personable man. I've met the man and he is a straight shooter and an accomplished professional with an already highly successful car leasing business. He may not be able to answer all questions due to business confidentiality restrictions but he'll tell you what he can. That's why I laugh at some postings by "wannabe be in the know" amateur industry "experts." If he's reading this dialogue he is either having a great laugh or is irked by the twisting non-factual rumors.
So we don't flood the poor guy with e-mails, I send the e-mail, but what questions should be asked of the ones I said before, and others (including the new one, where will the facility be?).
The ones you outlined sound fine... Covers all the important bases. I wouldn't be surprised if with at least one of those questions, he goes along the lines of "If we didn't already figure it out, why would we be doing it?", and that goes along with Tower's assessment regarding confidentiality restrictions...
OK everyone, how about this for a first draft:
Mr Daniel Bigda
Vertex Rail Technologies/Vertex Rail Manufacturing
24 Feb 2014

Hello Mr. Bigda

A number of us have read about the launch of Vertex Rail Technologies (Vertex Rail Manufacturing) and its plan to produce new innovative tank cars to handle the growing needs for safe transport of petroleum products by rail (along with production of other types of railcars). The ramp-up time line proposed on the Vertex Rail website sounds aggressive, but we doubt your company would go forward without full confidence that such goals are achievable. We wish you success in this endeavor.
Unfortunately, more-in-depth details seem currently rather skimpy in the Business and Railroad Press about this endeavor, and so we wonder if you could please answer a few questions to flesh out some details (and help quell the rampant speculation about this endeavor all over the net). It's understandable if some questions cannot be answered due to proprietary concerns.

- What was the thinking in the two parent companies - Boxcar Services and Vertex Rail Technologies - coming together to form this railcar manufacturing venture?

- Have you settled on specific sites for production, particularly the site in Worcester, MA?

- Is it correct that the Massachusetts site would be more for prototype development and R&D, and the main production facilities will be the North Carolina facility?

- Are you outsourcing main components such as freight trucks to reliable third parties? Do you have reliable supply chains in place? Overseas supply chains?

- Have you secured financing to complete set-up of the production facilities?

- Could you state if you have any specific customers in mind for this product; more specific than the petroleum Industry and the transport companies that serve it.

- Is there thought to developing tank cars for export overseas.

Thank you very much for any information you may be able to supply.

Sincerely
-- My real name here...
Mr Bigda may just ignore the e-mail, but I tried to keep it as business -ike as possible. Of course, one big problem is the first words "A number of us..."

Just think of the thought process with that
"A number of us..."
"And just who are you all?"
"A bunch of nosy foamers on a railfan website"
"Hmm, I see, kthxbai!"
"Wait, we know Ken Patrick"
"The Ken Patrick? Ken with his self-sealing garbage containers? Why didn't you say so? We have 18,700,000 financing lined up, all 75 production Jigs and Templates were built in Canada, we are importing the freight trucks from Texmaco Rail & Engineering in India, the new UP Transport-Fuel sector will be our first major customer....
  by Cosmo
 
Tower35 wrote:Instead of analyzing what could happen or guessing about what is going on and beating this to death, it's very easy to contact Mr. Bigda and ask him questions. He is easily accessible through email or by phone through the Boxcar Services website and is a very polite and personable man. I've met the man and he is a straight shooter and an accomplished professional with an already highly successful car leasing business. He may not be able to answer all questions due to business confidentiality restrictions but he'll tell you what he can. That's why I laugh at some postings by "wannabe be in the know" amateur industry "experts." If he's reading this dialogue he is either having a great laugh or is irked by the twisting non-factual rumors.
So, let me get this straight...
...you are implying that the allegations, insinuations and innuendo of a certain "industry insider In-The-Know" fail to pass the "straight-face test?" :O
SAY IT AIN'T SO! :wink:
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