New Jersey Seashore Lines: was CNJ being cleard Woodmansie>N

Good to hear!!!
Now the question is WHEN the trains will start rolling!!! These things sometimes take a long time to come to fruition!!

Jtgshu wrote:

luminous53 wrote:Looks like NJSL is still trying to get funding from the state. 1.6 million

http://www.state.nj.us/transportation// ... update.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also note above the NJSL line item - one in Conrail

3 Rehabilitation of Three Timber Bridges on the Southern Secondary $750,000.00

Those are just the projects submitted to the state. Not all projects submitted get the funding.

wolfboy8171981 wrote:

Jtgshu wrote:

luminous53 wrote:Looks like NJSL is still trying to get funding from the state. 1.6 million

http://www.state.nj.us/transportation// ... update.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also note above the NJSL line item - one in Conrail

3 Rehabilitation of Three Timber Bridges on the Southern Secondary $750,000.00

Those are just the projects submitted to the state. Not all projects submitted get the funding.

Yea..........well, hopefully they will get funds from the state to do the work!!!

Have to give Track Builders credit, they are about done with the project as of yesterday. You could open 539 both ways and I guess they could attend to finishing up the rail North and the South approaches regardless. I know the rails were welded before they were placed in the concrete crossing since they were on the side of the road before they closed it. I didn't see the rails that were paved over, so they might have removed them from the site. They have addressed the road approaches and except for the noise of your tires hitting the gap you may not even notice except for what I expect will be RR approach signage on either side and of course on the pavement.

I'm curious about signals and have not seen any evidence of wrecking out the old electrical box yet, nor any sign yet of an intention to put anything more than crossbucks there, shades of what was probably there during its original peak usage in the Comet days. Later it was signalized for the sand trains.

I am guessing that just crossbucks as it is on the crossings at Savoy Blvd. and Diamond Road is not an option. 539 is a major north south access with as much, if not more traffic than Lacey Road.

I heartily agree with assessments here that one, the crossing improvement at 539 is a major indicator and two, the state rail plan still shows an attempt to get funding for the tie replacement. My walks along the ROW show that they have to replace even more ties than they have and they need another major ROW clearing of trees that have fallen across the tracks since they went through last year.

I will post more photos in the very next posting

Here are a few more. Using and old and new theme you can see the old signal box in one and the street aptly named that is a paper street that shows it going through Crestwood Village 7 as it once did, but now dead ends. I don't think its naming had anything to do with the former JCRR. The track builders backhoe was the only one on scene as it has been for the other improvements.

I am just encouraged by this activity, as has been said we are a long ways away from an active railpath...chosing my words carefully...not a mainline and maybe at best an industrial siding, but there is now a greater possibility that this ROW will be an anchor for future expansion. There are actually more questions to answer than ever.

But there it is whatever they improve at the Hanson Pit (I haven't noticed any) and whatever they are doing from Lakehurst north, a vehicle, maybe not yet a locomotive or rolling stock can move on rails that last saw a train in the 1980s and that leads to all sorts of possibilites.

Great pictures and summary of the work! Good to see the work actually being done!

After 102 pages of commentary, can someone briefly recap exactly what the line might or will be used for? I noted the enthusiasm for it, and I love the idea of any old CNJ routes being active - but what will it be used for and where?
Thanks....

My take on it is this. Clayton sand owns the line from Lakehurst to their pit in Woodmansie. I can't imagine any of this work has anything to do with track south of the sand pit. NJSL wants to operated the line and has applied for state funding with Clayton. Clayton so far has spent very little money and it looks like to me, Clayton is letting state money trickle in every year or so, with these crossing upgrades. If the state comes in and gives him the money, you will get sand trains. I am skeptical they will give him tax dollars because he can truck the sand, he's just looking to save some money. The other and most important questions is, who needs all this sand? If there is a demand, or a huge construction project clayton could pay for the rebuild himself. Also it is smart from his perspective to let the state fix up some crossings so if clayton is in talks regarding a construction project, the crossing (which the state/county paid over) are already ready to go. Now the line can be rebuilt faster and he has a better idea of the real cost. Somewhere in this thread a person posted claiming to have an inside source who stated something to the effect of, Clayton wants to resume service but they are in no rush. Sounds right to me.

Also a question, anyone know what pound rail is on the Clayton segment?

they want 1.6 million for ties and bridge work. Does this sound Low or High? I would figure about 3 million but i really am talking out of my ass.

hey I just found this from 2011, it lays out the cost.

BUREAU OF RAIL SERVICES
FISCAL YEAR 2011 STATE RAIL PLAN APPLICATIONS ELIGIBLE FOR FUNDING

Sponsor / Railroad:
New Jersey Seashore Lines (NJSL)
Project Name:
Tie Renewal Project to serve an Aggregate Transload Facility
Project Scope of Work:

Description of the Proposed Project:
In order to provide new freight rail service to (initially) two new freight rail customers at a new aggregate transload facility; New Jersey Seashore Lines (NJSL) proposes a tie, switch and bridge timber renewal project on 13 - miles of main track, and repairs to one (1) undergrade wooden bridge to gain access to the transload facility. This work is necessary to support the movement of heavy - density aggregate traffic.
Detailed Scope of Work of the Proposed Project:
Tie, switch and bridge timber renewal:
1. Remove nine thousand, three hundred sixty (9,360) old ties and properly dispose of them off site;
2. Furnish and install nine thousand, three hundred sixty (9,360) new grade ties;
3. Remove five (5) sets of old switch timbers and properly dispose of them off site;
4. Furnish and install five (5) complete sets of new switch timbers for Number eight switches. All new timbers will be a
Grade #5 quality;
5. Furnish and install five (5) new switch stands, complete with new rods and latches.
6. Remove two (2) unused switches and straight - rail the track;
7. Tighten or replace (as necessary) all loose track bolts;
8. Utilizing an on - track Tamper, spot - tamp the track to level as effectively as possible, without performing a complete
surfacing project;
9. Utilizing an on - track Broom Regulator, broom the entire 13 miles of track;
10. Remove all old bridge timbers on one (1) undergrade wooden bridge and properly dispose of them off site;
11. Furnish and install all new bridge timbers on one (1) undergrade wooden bridge;
Bridge repairs:
Page 2 of 6
NEW JERSEY DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
BUREAU OF RAIL SERVICES
FISCAL YEAR 2011 STATE RAIL PLAN APPLICATIONS ELIGIBLE FOR FUNDING


12. Furnish and distribute ballast at both north and south approaches to the bridge;
13. Furnish and install 96 lineal feet of 4" x 8" timber guards, with fasteners;
14. Furnish and install 132 lineal feet 12" diameter treated timber posts;
15. Furnish and install one (1) each concrete cap;
16. Furnish and install one (1) each concrete sill;
17. Remove drift;
18. Furnish and install inner guard rail;
19. Furnish and install 200 lineal feet of 3" x 10" bracing
20. Clean up the job site, perform final inspections and prepare the track for service.
Additional Information:
In order to accomodate the process of the movement of aggregates by rail, Clayton Sand Company recently purchased a new 14" x 14" 120 Single Pump electric Marlin Class Dredge with 120' dredging depth capacity. This capital expenditure by Clayton Sand Company totalled $2.7 million dollars. The new Marlin Class Dredge was placed in service during March of 2010.

Municipality (s):
Borough of Lakehurst; Manchester Township
County (s):
Ocean
Legislative District (s):
8, 9

Total Cost:

$1,653,000.00

This was from 2011, its now 1/2 way thru 2013 so you can see where this fantasy is going. If Clayton wanted to persue this project he would have done so back in 2007! Besides what does that
NJSL have in the way of locomotives, employees, etc.?? I still believe thse grade crossing projects were funded thru Obama's 2010 "put people back to work" brainstorm. How come these grade crossings have no gates, flashing signals etc.? If this line was to be come active it would have to have more than the "RR Xing" painted in the roadway.

ladder2 wrote: I still believe thse grade crossing projects were funded thru Obama's 2010 "put people back to work" brainstorm. How come these grade crossings have no gates, flashing signals etc.? If this line was to be come active it would have to have more than the "RR Xing" painted in the roadway.

Never let details get in the way of a good argument.

Wranglebrook road was rebuilt with flashers and gates.

Rt 530 (Lacey Rd) was rebuilt, it is tied into the traffic siginals on either side of the crossing.

Diamond Rd was constructed before the project started, it was rebuilt due to only having been paved over the old ties and the rail and ties needed to be replaced, with x-bars.

Rt 539 will most likely get lights and gates at a later date.

Pasadena Rd was rebuilt with x-bars.

If your not aware, I'd say 95% of grade crossings get rebuilt with tax payers money yearly. Most grade crossings have a useful life of about 15 years. Railroads usually apply for funding a year or two in advance to do the work. It isn't odd that over three years all 5 crossings got rebuilt. It is also of interest that this line was never formally abandoned with the STB. Therefore the county never had the right to pave over the crossings, unless Clayton gave them permission. Thus why Diamond Rd was built originally with a crude grade crossing. Conversely it has been said, and I agree with, that Pasadena Rd was removed due to Claytons trucks destroying it over time.

I also am not convinced that freight service is the real motivator here. Time will tell.....

Why did Clayton clear the line in 05 and 09 and not apply for funding until 2011? Why would they spend money on equipment to help expedite the process if they had no plans to reactivate for them and another customer. If you look at the work estimate from 2011, it does not list any crossing repairs/upgrades. In the state guidelines it says that the project will be need to be in service for 5 years minimum. I think Clayton can do that. It also says the project will only be funded between 50 and 90% ? The Clayton company appears to have grown a lot in the last 10-15 years and keeps growing. I am pretty sure they sell a lot of concrete and sand. Now that the crossing work is done, it would make a lot of sense for them to reactivate the line. It would also bring the SA31 back to Lakehurst and add 2 customers to the line.

I do remember the sand trains sitting in Lakehurst behind the Hardware store times many as a kid. They had 2 Blue GP locos and they had plenty of sand cars attached. I always heard bad track conditions and vandalism lead to lots of derailments after Conrail took over and that is why they subcontracted the line out and that is why it finally went out of service. Is this true?

[quote="bmwr12"I do remember the sand trains sitting in Lakehurst behind the Hardware store times many as a kid. They had 2 Blue GP locos and they had plenty of sand cars attached. I always heard bad track conditions and vandalism lead to lots of derailments after Conrail took over and that is why they subcontracted the line out and that is why it finally went out of service. Is this true?[/quote]

A brief history of the line from the 70's onward.

The CNJ used the line as a through freight route (Elizapethport, to Bridgeton) right to it's end. Sand traffic had a spike in '74, and '75 as sand was needed for cement used in construction
of the Meadowlands complex. The CNJ received a state grant to improve the tracks for this.

After Conrail day (4/1/76) the line remained in use but through freights were dropped in mid-78, and track conditions below Lakehurst worsened.
After the end of through freights no traffic moved between Woodmansie and Winslow.

Conrail abandoned the line between Lakehurst and Winslow in the early 1980's and started to sell off the ROW.
Clayton purchased the ROW between Lakehurst and their pit at Woodmansie, and a contract operator (Ashland, IIRC) ran sand trains between Woodmansie and Lakehurst.
It was at this time that the former main track in Woodmansie was used as a siding for hopper cars (you could see this easily from Pasadena Road).
Below that point the Main track was buried in fill and paved over where the Clayton driveways are.
Poor track conditions led to Clayton ending it's sand trains around 1990, or so.

In order to preserve the ROW the State of NJ started to buy the line from it's private owners, with the exception of the Lakehurst to Woodmansie segemtn since Clayton
reserved the right to reactivate sand train if and when they felt appropriate.

The former blue comet website (which is archived somewhere) has excellent pictures of the line, including a photo of one of the last through freights at Lakewood.

Ken

Ladder 2, traffic volume & patterns generally dictate whether a crossing gets flashers/gates or not. The following is a tidbit of information from a town council meeting earlier this year, after a local resident expressed concern over the Diamond Rd. crossing:

"The New Jersey Department of Transportation recognizes three railroad crossings in Manchester. They are Wranglebrook, Lacey and Diamond Rd. Ms. Zsoldos said she spoke to Todd Hurt of the NJDOT. It is not that they do not recognize Diamond Rd. as a railroad crossing, they do not feel the amount of traffic warrants the flashing light signal. Mr. Hurt did commit to say that after one month of the rail line being operational, he would send a diagnostic team out to monitor the traffic. Mr. Lee said it was a dangerous situation. Ms. Zsoldos said she will hold the NJDOT to their commitment of sending out the diagnostic team."

Chris

I still believe that the reactivation could still happen but if there are no further signs of it by the end of the year I will start to think otherwise. They have cleared the line in October of 05 and 09 so they should be clearing it again this fall? Lakehurst is a pile of weeds and overgrowth right now and looks terrible. I am keeping my fingers crossed they get the funding.