• Need help for location on NYC Buffalo Main

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

  by TrainDetainer
Pumpers - Thanks for that info. Looks like the DLW deal to acquire fell through and someone else took up the old UCC facility.

CT - I was confusing my estimated change date for the A with the Avenue. I don't have the older TT's right here, but the A was an Industrial Track at least as far back as TT No.2 (1992, and there are no quotation marks), and I'm fairly sure it was still a runner in 89 when I worked in Buffalo. It may have changed that year. I don't know what you're looking at, but my 1999 TC shows A I.T. on both page 241 and the Table of Contents. I do remember the Avenue was downgraded from runner to industrial sometime after 94/95 and it didn't need to remain a runner as long as it did. There was no need for it after Amtrak took over the Niagara between 437 and 7, eliminating the Compromise/Avenue/Niagara route as an alternative for Kenmore coal trains. I gave BS-23 permission up and back on the Avenue with permission to open up at Chicago Street, Stetson and return, many times before it changed. By Split Day though, the only runner in the Terminal was the Wonalancet from CP-8 to the Whitehouse on the Niagara Branch, again under control of the Terminal DS after the brief Lakeshore swap/back (the Howard Street and Bison Runners had already been transferred to NS along with the SouTier desks).

As for crossovers, where there's a right-hand and a left-hand crossover between each track at an interlocking allowing movement from far right to far left track or vice-versa, the interlocking is generally referred to as having universal crossovers.
  by ctclark1
I wasn't trying to say you were wrong there, just providing the information I have about the "A" from the Conrail track charts (from 78 to 99) and CSX Albany ETT #4 ('04) (which also shows it in quotations, btw). I didn't happen to look at the CR ETTs until now, so that's why I commented on them all having quotes, but looking at them I see you're right about no quotes. While I don't know if it made any difference, I wonder if there was an official way of writing it or they just did it in some places to help denote that it was in fact only referred to by a single letter, though I kind of wonder why CR named it such in the first place.

FYI everything I've referenced is available on multimodalways.
  by SST
After the boat show yesterday, and with nice weather, I went over to see if the building[s] are still standing. The one I remember is still there and here are two pics. These locations are the only two spots I could maneuver to get a pic. The building is either surrounded by fencing or other buildings. I found only 2 sets of rails in the ground. Which is more than I expected.

This picture is on the south end of the building looking north towards Broadway [Bison behind me]. After snapping the picture, I drove along side the building on the rails. I looked into the building and it appears to be just a storage facility as I could see stacks of pallets inside. I didn't stop to see what the product was on the pallets. [I didn't realize how blurry this picture was until I just posted it. We'll have to suffer as I'm not going back:)]

This picture was taken from the north end of the same building looking south. Broadway behind me.

The other set of rails were from the Bison yard going towards the other buildings. That was only accessible via Kennedy Rd. That set of rails is severed from the building and the Bison yard. Just looking at Google Sat, the track that is shown from the Bison Yard to a building is inaccessible. It is fenced off and no way to get a peek without jumping the fence.
  by SST
I couldn't resist, I went back. If this is the location of the former building, you're right, nothing left. I managed getting around the property to get various viewpoints.

The first thing I looked for were any rails in the ground. I got behind the southern end of the warehouse. The rails are still in the ground. The southern most entrance has a concrete dock sitting on top of the rails so no rail activity here. The next set of rails to the left [west] go along the side of the building and appear to enter the building. I didn't walk this area, just peeked around the corner. It appears that there is no activity here either, or very very little, as the rails are quite corroded.

To be clear, the building that I photographed is here...marker B. http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=42.89921,-78 ... owaga%20NY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I managed to get further south along one of the new buildings and I could see a huge stack of rail ties. Viewable from the NYS Thruway. I could also see the snow plow and a crane.
  by TrainDetainer
I don't think nydepot is quite right either. Go back and look at the 1/28 post of the topo map - the footprint of the buildings SST photographed is clearly visible at the western edge of the cropped topo, along Kennedy Ave. Appears there was an empty lot that is now what nydepot linked to (Benlin Freight) and the New City/Central Sales location is the eastern lot that now shows on Google as the McKesson/Keystone location. That also meshes with the distance to the power line ROW adjacent to the Thruway.

pumpers' map of New City Car also shows the road off of Ludwig as an electric railway ROW, so I have to wonder if the New City plant was originally constructed (before any car works ownership) as a trolley facility. Anyone have any old trolley system maps of the area?
  by nydepot
Here is the overlay from 1938 to now.

My main point was I was told everything for Central States was removed.

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
  by pumpers
Zooming in on the map posted by nydepot on 2/24, and by comparing various dates at historicaerials.com, in my opinion Central states (previously known as New City Car) was located in the current location of a building labelled "Spirit Distribution" and the one just to the north of it, along with the parking lot and grass strip beyond the parking on the west side of these buildings. You have to zoom in a few times for that label to show up. The building is to the west of the one labelled Keystone Auto Buffalo (but looks to be a building built at the same time). The next one west of Spirit Distribution is labelled Berlin Freight, which I think is the one SST is describing. No idea if the labels are correct or not, but I am fairly sure about the location. JS
Basically, I think what I wrote is consistent with NYdepot's overlay in the previous post
  by SST
While zooming in on the link above, I noticed that there is trackage on the north side of the NYC main directly opposite of New City. Never knew this. It goes into an industrial complex that also connects with the WSRR. The location is where Galleria Dr and Target are currently located. When I first started exploring RR's I road my bike down the WSRR and went behind Target. There is still fencing "from the old days" back there. You might be able to see it from Galleria Dr. But that's a different subject.
  by nydepot
Yes, there were several buildings. They built and repaired poultry cars.
SST wrote:Did the New City have just one building or was it a complex of one main and perhaps several others. The building I photographed, could this still be a secondary building to New City?

EDIT: Adding link: 1927 Erie County Aerial PIc- http://www2.erie.gov/aerial_photos/site ... b6_h22.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by nydepot on Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
  by BR&P
nydepot wrote: They built and repaired poultry cars.
I thought it was a big industry, but apparently it was just a chicken s*** operation.

(Sorry, just couldn't resist that one! Image )
  by SST
With the lack of EPA standards back then, I wonder how they cleaned the cars and where did the run off go?
  by nydepot
DL&W facilities guy testing at the treatment building for the steam engine water tank - "Why do we keep getting the high ammonia readings in our tests?"
SST wrote:With the lack of EPA standards back then, I wonder how they cleaned the cars and where did the run off go?