• NEC Future: HSR "High Line", FRA, Amtrak Infrastructure Plan

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

  by SRich
 
Maybe an option is for Amtrak to take the ownership of the MNR section of the NEC and bring it to an high speed standard.
  by Jeff Smith
 
Single ownership of the entire corridor would simplify things, and probably save them infrastructure $$$. MNRR and CtDOT will not go along, though. They will not want to relinquish dispatch control. See Transit, New Jersey, NEC Red-headed Bastard Step Child. :wink:

I'd add, as has been noted here and elsewhere before, there's really not much you can do to increase speed west of New Haven into NYP. This is due to line characteristics and sheer volume. It's not all that many miles either. Bringing it into a state of good repair and eliminating speed restrictions/slow orders is far more important.
  by F-line to Dudley via Park
 
NH2060 wrote:So one way or another the OSB-Kenyon Bypass will be a part of whatever "build" alternative the FRA decides on? Doesn't make any sense at all. The party that would primarily benefit from it would actually be CDOT as it would remove anywhere from 9 to 14 Acela RTs on weekdays allowing those slots to be replaced by Shore Line East trains to/from New London along with any extended service to Westerly, essentially making that segment of the Shore Line a commuter/Regional line. They're definitely not planning on adding any more Regionals before 2030 and after that is anyone's guess depending on New Haven Line slot availability.


Furthermore the first 3 alternatives don't solve the "what do we do about the New Haven Line" problem in any way. And "Alternative 4" would render a SE CT "bypass line" rather redundant if there's also going to be a new NHV/NYP-HFD-PVD dedicated high speed line.
There's no way that's going to be built once a field survey team goes out there for an informal look-see...or they learn how to turn on Terrain View in Google Maps. The first 1-6 miles inland is like a grand tour of every north-south running trap rock seam in New London County. All those rock cuts that craptacularly standards-outdated I-95 was blasted through 60 years ago come into play on that OSB-Shannock bypass. It may not be as brain-meltingly stupid as 10 miles of tunneling straight through the heart of the Metacomet Ridge, but it's got the same real-world probability of happening: absolute zero. Anybody with actual civil engineering experience would tell them they're doing it wrong if they insist on the hardest possible alt-Shoreline routing, and every HSR country with geologically challenging terrain (yes, including the Euro countries who bore straight through the Alps) would take one look at that and exclaim "Why would you do that to yourself???". All the density, the railroad, and the local street grid hug the shore and Route 1 corridor for a reason, and the price tag for add-a-lane'ing such a middling number of I-95 route miles and fixing the geometry to something that half-resembles real Interstate standards is so shockingly high for a reason.

The fact that they're leaning even harder on this build in the new slate of meetings just underscores how much a farce this entire process is. NEC FUTURE isn't living in the real world. It isn't even living in as real a world as Amtrak's own NEC Infrastructure Master Plan. Whatever the next-gen superduper NEC looks like when it actually gets a well-formed funding pitch to Congress and the states, it'll be drawn up by somebody completely different who chucks 80% of the 'unique' creations of NEC FUTURE's body of work in the trash and starts over with a whole new--much more reality-backed--set of assumptions. Which means we have a couple more years of this dog-and-pony show and the dilettantes heading the NEC FUTURE coalition lighting money on fire before that team of idiots gets mercifully disbanded and they start clean. Without all this physics-defying nonsense that can't be civilly engineered and picks the very antithesis of the paths of least resistance that satisfactorily accomplish service goals. Without the pointless turf-warrage with commuter rail that picks more fights with the states than it builds allies. Without the disregard for on-the-ground Ops Practices 101 that leaves such unexplainable disparities in TPH ceilings from state to state and tenant RR to tenant RR.

It's almost like you have to treat NEC FUTURE as the bureaucratically proverbial "ARC" chapter in the saga, where the Fates decree that it must live its tortured little existence and die a messy death as the necessary step before the proverbial "Gateway" replacement team can come in, cut through the B.S., and get down to real business. Like this is the Act I "tragedy" part of the play, and we're gonna have to sit through and suffer in frustration for awhile until Intermission and the Act II "redemption" part of the story begins.
  by SRich
 
Jeff Smith wrote:Single ownership of the entire corridor would simplify things, and probably save them infrastructure $$$. MNRR and CtDOT will not go along, though. They will not want to relinquish dispatch control. See Transit, New Jersey, NEC Red-headed * Step Child. :wink:
On NY Penn station Amtrak is the owner but dispatching is shared with LIRR/NJ. Maybe the same solution can be done on de MNR section: Amtrak will then be the owner of the track but dispatching would be shared with Metro North. Its becoming an advantage when MNR is using the Amtrak line to NY Penn.

I'd add, as has been noted here and elsewhere before, there's really not much you can do to increase speed west of New Haven into NYP. This is due to line characteristics and sheer volume. It's not all that many miles either. Bringing it into a state of good repair and eliminating speed restrictions/slow orders is far more important.
Thats wat i mean. :-D
  by Ridgefielder
 
SRich wrote:
Jeff Smith wrote:Single ownership of the entire corridor would simplify things, and probably save them infrastructure $$$. MNRR and CtDOT will not go along, though. They will not want to relinquish dispatch control. See Transit, New Jersey, NEC Red-headed * Step Child. :wink:
On NY Penn station Amtrak is the owner but dispatching is shared with LIRR/NJ. Maybe the same solution can be done on de MNR section: Amtrak will then be the owner of the track but dispatching would be shared with Metro North. Its becoming an advantage when MNR is using the Amtrak line to NY Penn
The State of Connecticut is not going to sell the New Haven Line. Period. End of story. Any politician who proposed such a thing would be voted out of office posthaste.

Metro-North ridership between the NY state line and New Haven is something like 40 times greater than Amtrak ridership. That's reason enough for MNRR to dispatch the line.
  by Greg Moore
 
Not only that, it's not like Amtrak would suddenly have more money than MNRR to spend on this.
  by ThirdRail7
 
Ridgefielder wrote:Metro-North ridership between the NY state line and New Haven is something like 40 times greater than Amtrak ridership. That's reason enough for MNRR to dispatch the line.
Ridership has nothing to do with it. If it did, NJT would dispatch the NEC, Maryland would dispatch the railroad between PVL and WAS and VRE would dispatch the RF&P subdivision since they obviously move more passengers than a freight train! :wink:
  by DutchRailnut
 
possession is half the battle, when American Premier Underwriters (penn Central) put nec up for sale, the MTA and CDOT pounced and got what they wanted.
Amtrak and others were just late at the gate as usual .
  by mvb119
 
SRich wrote: On NY Penn station Amtrak is the owner but dispatching is shared with LIRR/NJ. Maybe the same solution can be done on de MNR section: Amtrak will then be the owner of the track but dispatching would be shared with Metro North. Its becoming an advantage when MNR is using the Amtrak line to NY Penn.
While LIRR has a stake in PSCC, NJT does not. The Northeast corridor west of Penn Station is under complete control of Amtrak and is dispatched only by Amtrak dispatchers. Our house, our rules. LIRR and Amtrak share the dispatching between Harold Interlocking in Queens and Penn Station. The arrangement dates back to the construction of PSCC when LIRR put up a significant amount of the cost that went into building it.
  by twropr
 
On Dec. 19 Amtrak increased speed on Tracks 2 and 3 thru the reverse curves at Elizabeth, NJ from 55/65 MPH to 80/85 MPH for Acela Express and Amfleet trains. This was quite an accomplishment - wonder if the tracks were realigned or superelevation increased?
Andy
  by ThirdRail7
 
twropr wrote:On Dec. 19 Amtrak increased speed on Tracks 2 and 3 thru the reverse curves at Elizabeth, NJ from 55/65 MPH to 80/85 MPH for Acela Express and Amfleet trains. This was quite an accomplishment - wonder if the tracks were realigned or superelevation increased?
Andy
It is not 80/85 for Amfleet trains. That is for the Acela trains and the only thing that was done was minor surfacing.
  by ThirdRail7
 
You can also add that while Amtrak and LIRR haven't dramatically increased service since PSCC was built, NJT has come close to doubling the amount of trains they operate. They are the ones attempting to squeeze 3 lbs of potatoes into a 2 lb bag.
  by ThirdRail7
 
DutchRailnut wrote:possession is half the battle, when American Premier Underwriters (penn Central) put nec up for sale, the MTA and CDOT pounced and got what they wanted.
Amtrak and others were just late at the gate as usual .

Is it true that Amtrak was offered first dibs on the NHV line when it was put up for sale, but stated they didn't want it?
  by BlendedBreak
 
DutchRailnut wrote:possession is half the battle, when American Premier Underwriters (penn Central) put nec up for sale, the MTA and CDOT pounced and got what they wanted.
Amtrak and others were just late at the gate as usual .
And the MTA and CDOT have since that day been very good at demonstrating what happens when you bite off more than you can chew. :wink:
  by BlendedBreak
 
twropr wrote:On Dec. 19 Amtrak increased speed on Tracks 2 and 3 thru the reverse curves at Elizabeth, NJ from 55/65 MPH to 80/85 MPH for Acela Express and Amfleet trains. This was quite an accomplishment - wonder if the tracks were realigned or superelevation increased?
Andy

Same curves, same track.

Accomplishment= A Dollar+A Dream+A Sharpie :-)
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