MP15 HO scale..

I know this topic has been brought up, I was just curious about a few things though...

I saw that Athearn and Atlas were both releasing MP15s...one company will release the DC version and the other will release the AC version. Now, what's the difference between the MP15AC and the MP15DC? Have there been any announcements which paint schemes will be released? I'm curious if they will do the old Blue and White scheme from the 70s to the 90s, or the blue and yellow that came out towards the end of the diesel era, or if they will release the current LIRR paint job. Are they going to come DCC ready with sound?

as a side note the LIRR MP-15ac's are 4 feet longer than standard Mp-15ac's.
Due to them having a bathroom in front of generator as built.

The LIRR MP15s have a bathroom inside the hood? For some reason I find that funny...the LIRR isn't exactly a long distance railroad. Was that something that the union demanded? Do all of the other LIRR locomotives have a bathroom onboard?

to my knowledge i dont recall any LIRR 1500's having a crapper onbord. i havent been on one if a few years and dont recall any crappers onbrod.

engineers, can you conferm this?

The difference between the MP15AC & MP15DC is the type of "transmission". Meaning DC had a straight DC generator for traction where the AC had an alternator for traction (same as the GP38-2s). With the alternator you changed the AC output to DC for the traction motors. Alternators are easier to maintain. Also the LIRR's MP15ACs didn't have crappers. MP15s on non-commuter RRs would have to have a dumper if the unit lead out on the road.

Mike

The bathroom was in front of generator but may have been removed. Long distance has nothing to do with bathrooms.
A locomotive has to have a bathroom if its to be used outside yard, only passenger power is excluded since Engineer can go to Toilet in the consist.

this was always a rule and got Officialy included in FRA rules about 4 years back:


CHAPTER II--FEDERAL RAILROAD ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF
TRANSPORTATION

PART 229--RAILROAD LOCOMOTIVE SAFETY STANDARDS--Table of Contents

Subpart C--Safety Requirements

Sec. 229.137 Sanitation, general requirements.

(a) Sanitation compartment. Except as provided in paragraph (b) of
this section, all lead locomotives in use shall be equipped with a
sanitation compartment. Each sanitation compartment shall be:
(1) Adequately ventilated;
(2) Equipped with a door that:
(i) Closes, and
(ii) Possesses a modesty lock by [18 months after publication of the
final rule];
(3) Equipped with a toilet facility, as defined in this part;
(4) Equipped with a washing system, as defined in this part, unless
the railroad otherwise provides the washing system to employees upon
reporting for duty or occupying the cab for duty, or where the
locomotive is equipped with a stationary sink that is located outside of
the sanitation compartment;
(5) Equipped with toilet paper in sufficient quantity to meet
employee needs, unless the railroad otherwise provides toilet paper to
employees upon reporting for duty or occupying the cab for duty; and
(6) Equipped with a trash receptacle, unless the railroad otherwise
provides portable trash receptacles to employees upon reporting for duty
or occupying the cab for duty.
(b) Exceptions. (1) Paragraph (a) of this section shall not apply
to:
(i) Locomotives engaged in commuter service or other short-haul
passenger service and commuter work trains on which employees have ready
access to railroad-provided sanitation facilities outside of the
locomotive or elsewhere on the train, that meet otherwise applicable
sanitation standards, at frequent intervals during the course of their
work shift;
(ii) Locomotives engaged in switching service on which employees
have ready access to railroad-provided sanitation facilities outside of
the locomotive, that meet otherwise applicable sanitation standards, at
frequent intervals during the course of their work shift;
(iii) Locomotives engaged in transfer service on which employees
have ready access to railroad-provided sanitation

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facilities outside of the locomotive, that meet otherwise applicable
sanitation standards, at frequent intervals during the course of their
work shift;
(iv) Locomotives of Class III railroads engaged in operations other
than switching service or transfer service, that are not equipped with a
sanitation compartment as of June 3, 2002. Where an unequipped
locomotive of a Class III railroad is engaged in operations other than
switching or transfer service, employees shall have ready access to
railroad-provided sanitation facilities outside of the locomotive that
meet otherwise applicable sanitation standards, at frequent intervals
during the course of their work shift, or the railroad shall arrange for
enroute access to such facilities;
(v) Locomotives of tourist, scenic, historic, or excursion railroad
operations, which are otherwise covered by this part because they are
not propelled by steam power and operate on the general railroad system
of transportation, but on which employees have ready access to railroad-
provided sanitation facilities outside of the locomotive, that meet
otherwise applicable sanitation standards, at frequent intervals during
the course of their work shift; and
(vi) Except as provided in Sec. 229.14 of this part, control cab
locomotives designed for passenger occupancy and used in intercity push-
pull service that are not equipped with sanitation facilities, where
employees have ready access to railroad-provided sanitation in other
passenger cars on the train at frequent intervals during the course of
their work shift.
(2) Paragraph (a)(3) of this section shall not apply to:
(i) Locomotives of a Class I railroad which, prior to [the effective
date of this section], were equipped with a toilet facility in which
human waste falls via gravity to a holding tank where it is stored and
periodically emptied, which does not conform to the definition of toilet
facility set forth in this section. For these locomotives, the
requirements of this section pertaining to the type of toilet facilities
required shall be effective as these toilets become defective or are
replaced with conforming units, whichever occurs first. All other
requirements set forth in this section shall apply to these locomotives
as of June 3, 2002; and
(ii) With respect to the locomotives of a Class I railroad which,
prior to June 3, 2002, were equipped with a sanitation system other than
the units addressed by paragraph (b)(2)(i) of this section, that
contains and removes human waste by a method that does not conform with
the definition of toilet facility as set forth in this section, the
requirements of this section pertaining to the type of toilet facilities
shall apply on locomotives in use on July 1, 2003. However, the Class I
railroad subject to this exception shall not deliver locomotives with
such sanitation systems to other railroads for use, in the lead
position, during the time between June 3, 2002, and July 1, 2003. All
other requirements set forth in this section shall apply to the
locomotives of this Class I railroad as of June 3, 2002.
(c) Defective, unsanitary toilet facility; prohibition in lead
position. Except as provided in paragraphs (c)(1) through (5) of this
section, if the railroad determines during the daily inspection required
by Sec. 229.21 that a locomotive toilet facility is defective or is
unsanitary, or both, the railroad shall not use the locomotive in the
lead position. The railroad may continue to use a lead locomotive with a
toilet facility that is defective or unsanitary as of the daily
inspection only where all of the following conditions are met:
(1) The unsanitary or defective condition is discovered at a
location where there are no other suitable locomotives available for
use, ie., where it is not possible to switch another locomotive into the
lead position, or the location is not equipped to clean the sanitation
compartment if unsanitary or repair the toilet facility if defective;
(2) The locomotive, while noncompliant, did not pass through a
location where it could have been cleaned if unsanitary, repaired if
defective, or switched with another compliant locomotive, since its last
daily inspection required by this part;
(3) Upon reasonable request of a locomotive crewmember operating a
locomotive with a defective or unsanitary toilet facility, the railroad
arranges for

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access to a toilet facility outside the locomotive that meets otherwise
applicable sanitation standards;
(4) If the sanitation compartment is unsanitary, the sanitation
compartment door shall be closed and adequate ventilation shall be
provided in the cab so that it is habitable; and
(5) The locomotive shall not continue in service in the lead
position beyond a location where the defective or unsanitary condition
can be corrected or replaced with another compliant locomotive, or the
next daily inspection required by this part, whichever occurs first.
(d) Defective, unsanitary toilet facility; use in trailing position.
If the railroad determines during the daily inspection required by
Sec. 229.21 that a locomotive toilet facility is defective or is
unsanitary, or both, the railroad may use the locomotive in trailing
position. If the railroad places the locomotive in trailing position,
they shall not haul employees in the unit unless the sanitation
compartment is made sanitary prior to occupancy. If the toilet facility
is defective and the unit becomes occupied, the railroad shall clearly
mark the defective toilet facility as unavailable for use.
(e) Defective, sanitary toilet facility; use in switching, transfer
service. If the railroad determines during the daily inspection required
by Sec. 229.21 that a locomotive toilet facility is defective, but
sanitary, the railroad may use the locomotive in switching service, as
set forth in paragraph (b)(1)(ii) of this section, or in transfer
service, as set forth in paragraph (b)(1)(iii) of this section for a
period not to exceed 10 days. In this instance, the railroad shall
clearly mark the defective toilet facility as unavailable for use. After
expiration of the 10-day period, the locomotive shall be repaired or
used in the trailing position.
(f) Lack of toilet paper, washing system, trash receptacle. If the
railroad determines during the daily inspection required by Sec. 229.21
that the lead locomotive is not equipped with toilet paper in sufficient
quantity to meet employee needs, or a washing system as required by
paragraph (a)(4) of this section, or a trash receptacle as required by
paragraph (a)(6) of this section, the locomotive shall be equipped with
these items prior to departure.
(g) Inadequate ventilation. If the railroad determines during the
daily inspection required by Sec. 229.21 that the sanitation compartment
of the lead locomotive in use is not adequately ventilated as required
by paragraph (a)(1) of this section, the railroad shall repair the
ventilation prior to departure, or place the locomotive in trailing
position, in switching service as set forth in paragraph (b)(1)(ii) of
this section, or in transfer service as set forth in paragraph
(b)(1)(iii) of this section.
(h) Door closure and modesty lock. If the railroad determines during
the daily inspection required by Sec. 229.21 that the sanitation
compartment on the lead locomotive is not equipped with a door that
closes, as required by paragraph (a)(2)(i) of this section, the railroad
shall repair the door prior to departure, or place the locomotive in
trailing position, in switching service as set forth in paragraph
(b)(1)(ii) of this section, or in transfer service as set forth in
paragraph (b)(1)(iii) of this section. If the railroad determines during
the daily inspection required by Sec. 229.21 that the modesty lock
required by paragraph (a)(2)(ii) of this section is defective, the
modesty lock shall be repaired pursuant to the requirements of
Sec. 229.139(e).
(i) Equipped units; retention and maintenance. Except where a
railroad downgrades a locomotive to service in which it will never be
occupied, where a locomotive is equipped with a toilet facility as of
[the effective date of the final rule], the railroad shall retain and
maintain the toilet facility in the locomotive consistent with the
requirements of this part, including locomotives used in switching
service pursuant to paragraph (b)(1)(ii) of this section, and in
transfer service pursuant to paragraph (b)(1)(iii) of this section.
(j) Newly manufactured units; in-cab facilities. All locomotives
manufactured after June 3, 2002, except switching units built
exclusively for switching service and locomotives built exclusively for
commuter service, shall be equipped with a sanitation compartment
accessible to cab employees without exiting to the out-of-doors for use.
No railroad may use a locomotive built

[[Page 327]]

after June 3, 2002, that does not comply with this subsection.
(k) Potable water. The railroad shall utilize potable water where
the washing system includes the use of water.

The LIRR MP-15ac's were NEVER equipped with a toilet. The design included a space for a toilet between the front of the cab and the generator though(god knows how you would ever contort yourself to get into that space anyways...especially in a "hurry!! ) The only thing that was ever in that space was either a)nothing or b) the seal for the ASC if it was not relocated to inside the cab.
They are not any longer than a standard MP-15ac either. They are longer then an MP-15DC, as are all MP-15ac's. Basically, they are 100% "off the shelf" locomotives from EMD.