Mott Haven Yard operations of the late 1950s

Anyone know where I can find information on the layout and operation of both Mott Haven yard and the adjacent junction? I am particularly interested in the late 1950's, but would appreciate any available info...

Some detailed questions, as well, for those in the know:
My understanding, so far, is that trains coming out of GCT for service that needed to be turned went up track 5 of the Hudson div and then backed into the yard. Not clear to me if other moves into the yard, as well as those returning to GCT from the yard used the two yard leads that connect into tracks 5 and 6 or the connection to track 4 of the Harlem div. I've seen a few references that imply usage of the two yard leads, but this seems like it would pose a big constraint on yard operation.

AFAIK, there was no switch off the wye tracks into the MO Yard. Where the double wye crossed the yard leads was a separate interlocking (MO-A) which controlled the diamonds and entry switches.

Trains which had to be washed went up the Hudson side to the car washer at High Bridge, then reutrned to E. 138th St. for entry into the yard.

As far as turning equipment, solid trainsets which usually turned on the GCT Upper Level Loop after unloading on the arrival platforms (Tks. 38 thru 42). These were the long-distance consists, and they were hauled "backwards" form MO into GCT for loading and departure. The MO engine would either cut off at Tower A so the train could be shoved to the block or pull all the way in and be buried until departure.

Commuter consists did not have to be turned as the seats were reversible.

Individual cars which had to be turned were handled by MO switchers and turned via the wye tracks which were 3rd rail equipped.

SH, you have put an interesting answer to a question that I was racking my brain to figure out. Of course, I was working for the New Haven at the
time and we were not involved in the GCT-Mott Haven yard operation but
it was a subject that interested me. So I take it that the trains from GCT
that needed to be washed were pulled right up and through the washer at
Highbridge then they were shoved east to 138th Street and pulled into the
yard, am I correct on this?
Do you recall just when Mott Haven Yard was closed so far as the LD
train operation was concerned? My guess would be around 1965.
Noel Weaver

By the summer of '65 we had commenced transferring servicing of THE LINERS to the GCT basement, but hadn't closed MOTT HAVEN yard completely. By that time most commissary functions were relocated to GCT, and the "LINEN" concession was being outsourced. The best ,recent yard layout I've seen was in the TRRA issue of 2002 [issue 61-62] which was included to show the servicing/makeup/for the SOUTHWESTERN LIMITED. Although dated, its accurate in every detail re the access to MO yard and consistent with SHELDON'S advice. Only entrance to the yard was from 138th st, or off the HARLEM M.T.s! LARRY BAGGERLY

Thanks, everyone...

So, in the case where a car needed to be turned using the wye, sounds like it needed several moves to get onto the yard leads and then into the yard. Was the double wye, then, primarily used for freight making its way over to Oak Point?

What I understand, then, is that essentially all moves in and out of the yard involved the two leads coming up from 138th st. This must have been a significant impediment to switching operations, unless there were separate switching leads somewhere?

Some video footage (Walt Berko's Lake Shore Limited) shows remnance of structure around highbridge in-between the mains. I'm assuming this is where the washracks were. Seems odd, rather than having it off to the side of the mains. I guess if all the wash jobs were then pushed back down to 138th st (before being pulled into the yard) there wouldn't necessarily be any additional conflict with traffic on the Hudson line. Which track was used to head up and back to the washracks?

Lastly, Larry, what is the reference to "HARLEM M.T.s?" Thanks for the pointer on the TRRA article. I will look it up...

Adam-------------------------------------

Adam,

The High Bridge Car Wash was between Tks. 1 and 2. Trains from GCT would enter off Tk. 1 with the current of traffic and then back out onto Tk. 2 to return to E. 138th St., again with the current of traffic entering the MO interlocking.

The additional switching leads for the MO Yard opened off the two main leads and were controlled from MO-A.

NYC freight traffic which used the wye tracks were trains to and from the Harlem Div. including the Rutland Milk and the "Dog" which went to the W. 7nd St. Yard (Hudson Div.); and through freights which originated / terminated at the Westchester Ave. and Pt. Morris Yards, both of which were accessed off the Pt. Morris Branch which diverged off the Harlem Div. at Melrose (also part of the MO Interlocking).

Oak Point was a former New Haven Yard ' Float Bridge location and wasn't utilized for through traffic until after the NH was included in the PC merger. One of the more interesting jobs when I was in GCT was DO-1/2 (Condr. "Rebel" Lee) which ran between W. 72nd St Yard and Oak Point and frequently had 80 to 100 cars. There was an hourly gap of about 10" to 15" in the commuter traffic at MO, and that's when DO-1/2 or one of the through freights SELI or OPSE would be worked through MO from the Branch to the Hudson Line. Outbound, it was quite a move to start from the Melrose curve, cross all 4 Harlem Tks. to reach Tk. 140, get around the wye, and then cross 4 Hudson Tks. to reach #4 which had TCS to DV.

The "M.T." stands for Main Track.

Must have been quite an experience from Melrose through to the Hudson line. What does "TCS" stand for?

Adam----------------------------------------

"TCS" = Traffic Control System, also referred to as "CTC" (Centralized Traffic Control).

This is the signal system in which a train dispatcher or operator can control signals and switches at outlying locations ("CP's" in New York Central speak) from an office location without working through manned interlocking towers in the field.

The authority for a train movement is by signal indication, and there is no current of traffic as with the ABS (Automatic Block) system. There is a direction of traffic which is established by the train dispatcher, and the tracks are signalled in both directions.

One of the earliest mainline TCS installations in the country was on the NYC's T&OC-Eastern Division in western Ohio.

Hope this helps.

DO-1/2 came after my days at Westchester Ave (1960-61), when most of the traffic came via DM-2 (Dewitt-Melrose). DM-2 used the MO wye, as did NK-1 and KN-2, the Rut Milk between Chatham and 60th Street. That move behind MO on the wye was dicey, to say the least. The curvature, crossing diamonds and third rail were a deadly combination.

Rebel Lee of DO-1/2 fame had an FH traveling switcher when I worked at BN. He could switch cars better than any other conductor I knew, and he received ample remuneration for his abilities. Hubert Jesse Lee came from Boaz, Alabama. He was just a good old soft-spoken southern boy. He could take my switch list at BN (we made them out on a big 8-1/2 x 11 sheet of paper - all tracks on one sheet) and just start batting out cars. I could hardly keep track of the moves, but when he finished they were all where they should be, in station and spot order. A few other conductors who shall remain nameless would leave BN Yard in worse shape than they found it, and the Put crew would have to dig out their own cars.

I never was in it, but I think the "stealth" interlocking up in Mott Haven Yard was known as "SS-1." It didn't appear in the station list of the time-table.

Speaking of freight operations at Mott Haven, I recall soon after I got set
up in 1970, Penn Central started running a Selkirk - Cedar Hill round trip
job with the symbols CH-4 and CH-3 at night. It originally ran down the
Hudson around the south wye and through Port Morris to Oak Point where
it changed crews for the trip up to Cedar Hill.
After it ran for a very short time, somebody got the idea to just run it
around the south wye at MO and right up the Harlem to Woodlawn and on
to the New Haven enroute to Cedar Hill as the job did nothing except for
changing crews at Oak Point and it took a lot more time that way. I
caught this job a number of times off the extra list at Oak Point and I have
to tell you that it sure felt strange running a heavy tonnage freight train up
the Harlem to Woodlawn where we then went to the old NHRR. None of
us New Haven people had run through freight trains on the Harlem up to
that time. Never had any trouble with the job but it did feel strange.
Eventually the job was rerouted at Beacon (CP-58) onto the Beacon
Branch and Maybrook Line to Danbury and Cedar Hill. At that time, they
started running the Danbury cars out of Selkirk instead of Cedar Hill and
these trains worked at Danbury in both directions.
Noel Weaver

The only problem with operating CH-3 & 4 via MO involved the very restrictive overhead clearances. IIRC, the most restrictive points were the St. Mary's Tunnel on the Pt. Morris Branch, the Woodlawn Stn. bridge on the Harlem Div., and the University Hts. Stn. bridge on the Hudson side.

I do recall how upset the residents of Beacon were when the Cedar Hill trains and the LI trains began operating via the Beacon Branch / Maybrook Line.

Did longer consists (such as the Century) getting pushed back from the wash racks at High Bridge to 138th st push all the way out to the Harlem River drawbridge to clear the switches at MO before pulling into the yard? Looks like there's about 1800' from the last switch to the bridge. I'm not sure of the length of the cars, but assuming 80' for the moment, a dozen cars, plus an "S" motor tacked on the end would put you out at least 1000'.

Second, from previous replies and other sources, I've tried to piece together what the junction looked like. I'm assuming the TRRA article will help fill in some of the remaining details in the yard itself. I've posted three graphics; one depicting the late '50s, the mid '80s, and 2006. You will have to select "view full screen" to see all the detail:

http://geocities.com/akohorn/mypage

In the 50's version (my period of focus) I'm missing how the 2 wye tracks connect into the mains and the crossovers that follow heading west toward High Bridge (area highlighted in green). The 80's version has details on this area, but there's one fewer main tracks. Thoughts?

Again in the 50's version, I don't have any insight into the pile of diamonds where the wye tracks cross the yard leads and then connect to the Harlem Line (area highlighted in blue). Thoughts?

Hopefully I've captured the rest accurately. Cheers!

Adam-----------------------------------------------

SH, I seem to recall that we had to run a certain route through Woodlawn
but it is too far back for me to recall just what it was.
I have a clipping in my scrapbook from the time when the locals around
the Beacon Branch were making a fuss about the heavy freight trains
using that line but thankfully, they got nowhere with their complaints.
I do remember that Penn Central had a Road Foreman stationed there in
the afternoon and evening for quite some time after the trains started
using that line.
I also well remember one fateful day in June, 1972 where that road
foreman literally saved my life when I became ill with a life threatening
problem at that time while working the Oak Point - Selkirk as a pilot for a
Hudson Division Crew, Dan Riley, I am sure you remember him. Spent
two weeks in the hospital at Beacon after emergency surgery.
I worked that line quite a bit and have some very interesting memories of
that operation.
Noel Weaver

Well, we found out some additional information about the 1950's and earlier arrangements.

Talked with a former GCT seniority district engineman who explained that after leaving GCT with a train, they would run to High Bridge using Tk. 1 west of MO, pull past the car washer, and then back through it. (That explains why the working limits for GCT district was 1 train length past the car wash switch.) They would back out of the washer onto Tk. 2, then run 2 into MO and go to 6 to 5 to 7 to North Wye. There was a switch into the east side of MO Yard off the North Wye, near Tk. 140 on the Harlem Side. No problem if the train consist could remain intact, and the train would be properly pointed for departure from GCT by departing MO via Tower 1 through MO to E. 138th St. If cars had to be switched out or added, then additional moves were required.

Both the North Wye and the South Wye were third-rail equipped at that time.

As information, I pulled the 6/14/1946 Electric Division / New York Terminal District Employee Timetable. For storage train moves between GCT and MO, there were 38 daily moves to MO and 40 daily moves to GCT, some of which were NH equipment. The directional difference is accounted for by two inbound trips which are identified as "Extra Cars" which were used at the discretion of the GCT Yardmaster. In addition, there were various moves on single days.

Apparently there were no car limits on train size as some of the moves handled the cars for 2 or 3 trains. If these were inbound, then the move would stop when the rear end cleared the 59th St. crossovers in the Tunnel, the inbound motor would cut away with the first consist, and a second motor would then shove the remaining part(s) into the designated platform track(s).

Gives some idea as to just how finely tuned the operations of that era were!

O.K., I incorporated some changes to the configuration. The revised files are uploaded to my website (http://geocities.com/akohorn/mypage). Make sure to hit the expand image icon that pops up, since some of the tracks tend to "disappear" at lower settings. Everything I'm still guessing on is in red.

West of MO (green area): You'll see that I've tweaked 2 switches (in red), as compared to the 1980's configuration. This would allow for the movement you described coming back on tk 2 from the washrack and crossing over to the northern wye. Makes much more sense, operationally, than the potential conflict backing down thu 138th st would have caused with NYC and NH traffic on the Harlem Division.

Also, I'm guessing that the southern wye had a diamond crossing over tk 7 before connecting into tk 5? Awkward arrangement, since this would prevent superelevation of the curve on track 7. This is not an issue in the 1980's, however, as there were only 3 MTs by this point, with tk 7 extending west from the northern wye apparently as a storage track. There appears to be intermittent remnance of track 3 beyond, but not much.

Central area (blue area): Still not sure exactly what's going on in the area of the diamonds, where the wye tracks end up, and what the southerly connection to tk 4 of the Harlem links into (perhaps this is the other end of tk 140?). This is all highlighted in red. A few obscure photos have given me a picture northward leading to the connection back into tk 4 up the Harlem.

Thanks for digging into this - I'm really enjoying it.

Adam-------------------------------------------------