MOM Rail Service

Pennsyjohn wrote:

Tom V wrote:

I would bet that you, Mr. remove the market, are a new person in the area, came from New York or somewhere like that and have a NIMBY attitude.
Let's go up towards where the line comes from Freehold, say by the Iron Mountain building and build there.
All we lose then is part of the Sod Farm.

I've lived in Marlboro, Manalapan and now Freehold since 1977, the Englishtown auction only attracted New Yorkers or groups from Newark. Locals were mostly kids looking to buy knives, Cigarettes and other stuff their not supposed to have. I know because I was one of those kids. As for the Collingswood auction, I used to work for the Trial Court Administrators office Freehold Vicinage when I graduated College. I can tell you of some crazy trials for crimes that were committed at the Collingswoood auction, kidnapping, extortion, robberies etc.. Mostly committed by gang members from Red Bank and Asbury Park.

The Market could easily be moved elsewhere (move it to the Wall Race Track), the huge parking lot off Rt 33/34 adjacent to the rail line is more valuable. The intersection of 33/34 needs to be redone anyway, to offer an West bound exit from 34-33. They could easily add an over pass/under pass to access the station.

SO, you've lived in the area since 1977. Wow, what a long time. I've lived in the area since 1963, and I was going to Collingswood since 1956. It is a fascinating place. As to your argument for tearing it down (criminal activity) same argument goes for say, Freehold Boro, or township. It seems that working for the Trial Court Administrators office actually means you don't get to see criminals, huh?

Again, get sensible. Poor people, people looking for something of a bargain go there. It is inconvenient for commuter work. And it is not the only place that children go to buy "forbidden" things. Granted the cigarettes are off limits, but the rest should be the choice of the parents involced. There is no legal basis for not selling knives to youngsters. Most vendors, however, have turned away youthful knife purchasers. They know who to sell to. Over 18, and you can buy them, or are you also an anti-gun nut? I think "arms" as defined by the Second Amendment might cover it.

And by the way, Wall Stadium seems to have racing again. Gee, let's put the market there and remove someone else's means of support and other people's fun.
You sure know how to do it.

Please try to get out and check the area before you offer ideas. The Sod Farm is a much better place for the station. 3 communities can get there (Freehold twp, Freehold Boro, and Howell) and has a lot of area for expansion.

It's settled, Pennsyjohn wins because he's lived there longer. I'll direct NJT management to listen to his ideas only. To all other contestants, thanks for coming in.

SO, you've lived in the area since 1977. Wow, what a long time.

I'm only 33, do the math!... Give me a break with this childish argument.

jb9152 wrote:

jimzim66 wrote:At this rate, I say forget MOM. All this time and energy could be used focusing on areas that actually want rail service, as well as using the resources that would have gone to MOM towards system-wide improvements. When everyone decides to get along and come up with a proposal everyone can play nice with, only then NJT should give serious consideration. Until then, move on.

Ugh. I'm starting to feel the same way.

The fact of the matter is while there is probably more opposition for MOM than any other NJ Transit rail expansion project, there is also more support for MOM than any other NJ Transit Rail expansion project. The MOM line will benefit more riders, and provide more highway congestion relief than any other NJ Transit project. The ridership potential for MOM dwarfs West Trenton, Lackawanna cut off, NYSW etc.. There's more people near the MOM line, which is why it's needed.

Here's a map of the proposed routes and proposed stations:


Note NJ Transit proposes a station for the Red Bank alignment at Rt33, that would be the Collingswood flea market. NJ Transit also proposes a Jackson twp station, anyone know where that would be located?..

As for comparing the Red Bank alignment vs the Monmouth Jct alignment, NJ Transit's own studies show the Red Bank route would handle 10,650 fewer passengers than the Monmouth Jct route. The times would be nearly identical, the Monmouth Jct route offers significantly more ridership potential with similar travel times as the Red Bank route. The Monmouth Jct route has to be the hands down first option, the only way I would agree to the Red Bank route is if the Monmouth Jct route could be pursued in the future. As one of NJ Transit's former directors stated, both MOM routes (Monmouth Jct and Red Bank) should be built. The Monmouth Jct and Red Bank routes are kind of like the Main / Bergen lines or the Montclair and M&E lines.

You know, I think these proposals were presented as "lets build it this way now, and in the future, we will work to expand the Freehold branch line to Monmouth Jct to connect it with the NEC" it would have had a totally different reaction, and probably wouldn't be an issue as much (Red Bank and Shrewsbury will still have problems and complaints, but they would be able to be addressed). But it is coming across as "Middlesex County won, and we are going to shove it down your throats, and take it or leave it" and that don't fly real well.

They BOTH should be built, both the Red Bank and Mon Jct routes, but this is NOT the way to do it.

Sad part is, is that the line is probably never going to be built now. As necessary as the line is, its just not going to happen, becuase of politics and pigheadedness in Middlesex County and a failure of leadership at ALL levels and organizations involved.

Not sure if this has been brought up or not, but when NJT was studying the electrification of the North Jersey Coast Line from South Amboy to Matawan and southward, there was one ambitious plan to run the catenary to Red Bank and then down the "Southern Secondary" (aka MOM's Red Bank Route to Lakehurst) and basically restore commuter service down to at least Lakewood. Again there was a mind set to try and restore commuter service from Red Bank to Lakehurst/Lakewood even at that time with the electrification project.

There is enough room along most of the route to double track the line. Where the electric would turn off at that point and turn to diesel - not sure. NJT thought they could save some money by hanging the catnary from existing electrical poles that already existed over some of the ROW (overhead tension wires extend down the Southern Secondary on a portion of the route from around Red Bank to the grounds somewhere near Earle Naval Station). You can see the overhead wires as the Southern Secondary crosses over under the Parkway near exit 105.

The diesel shuttle service would then begin at Red Bank for the North Jersey Coast Line, instead of Long Branch and continue south (to Bay Head) from there. There is a maintenance yard with some pretty ample space south of the current Red Bank train station on the North Jersey Coast Line. Likely more storage space here than at Long Branch. Then of course there were various arguments about - should the diesel shuttle service from Long Branch or Red Bank continue all the way down to Bay Head or be terminate at say Manasquan/Sea Girt for instance.

It will be interesting to see "what" happens, if anything, but I wouldn't be surprised if something started up from Lakehurst to Red Bank for the MOM route. And if it is the Red Bank route, why not terminate the trains in Hoboken, rather than Newark (until the new tunnels to New York come online)? Hoboken Train Station is largely under utilized as it is now. Everything gets jammed onto the NEC from the M&E lines.

You know, I think these proposals were presented as "lets build it this way now, and in the future, we will work to expand the Freehold branch line to Monmouth Jct to connect it with the NEC" it would have had a totally different reaction, and probably wouldn't be an issue as much (Red Bank and Shrewsbury will still have problems and complaints, but they would be able to be addressed). But it is coming across as "Middlesex County won, and we are going to shove it down your throats, and take it or leave it" and that don't fly real well.

They BOTH should be built, both the Red Bank and Mon Jct routes, but this is NOT the way to do it.

Jt I think you hit the nail on the head, I think a settlement was reached amongst the parties that they would proceed with the Red Bank alternative (with a spur to Freehold) now to take advantage of the pro transit , pro infrastructure tone now coming out of Washington. I think the State assured Monmouth County that they would proceed with the Monmouth Jct routing at some point in the future, but for now they would start with Red Bank and the Freehold spur. I think the State then went to Middlesex County and said we'll get Monmouth County to agree to the Red Bank plan and then never proceed with the Monmouth jct route. The Monmouth County Freeholders probably thought they were making a compromise that would get things started now, and that they would proceed with the Monmouth Jct routing piecemeal starting with the spur to Freehold.

I think Monmouth County figured out the State was being disingenuous especially given Middlesex Counties reaction (We won mentality), I think Monmouth County should pressure the State to provide a set in stone guarantee of support to the Monmouth Jct route. And that a timeline be established for how the State will proceed with the MOM routes, something the legislature approves that would direct the State to pursue the Red Bank alignment near term in the 2014-2017 time period and the Monmouth jct route in the 2020-2025 timeframe.

The fact is both routes are needed, and both routes must be built.

Very interesting post.

D'Amico ran away from his initial statement of support so fast, you'd think he had four legs and a bit in his mouth. Monmouth money is in the saddle. Now NJT is out on a limb by itself. Should be interesting to see how this unfolds. Perhaps yet another interesting "compromise" route proposal.

E-44 wrote:D'Amico ran away from his initial statement of support so fast, you'd think he had four legs and a bit in his mouth. Monmouth money is in the saddle. Now NJT is out on a limb by itself. Should be interesting to see how this unfolds. Perhaps yet another interesting "compromise" route proposal.

Extend the proposed Freehold spur further to Manalapan/Englishtown?..

Let's not be so quick to say "let's spend the money on areas that want rail service." Many in that area may want rail service, and other folks may want to ride rail service TO that location. There's just a lot of politics and likely interests with money fouling it up for others.

E-44 wrote:D'Amico ran away from his initial statement of support so fast, you'd think he had four legs and a bit in his mouth. Monmouth money is in the saddle. Now NJT is out on a limb by itself. Should be interesting to see how this unfolds. Perhaps yet another interesting "compromise" route proposal.

I think D'Amico didn't quite understand exactly what was being discussed, and the ramifications of it, and when he came back to the other Monmouth County Freeholders, he was spanked, and spanked good.....

Tom V,

Can you please post up the map with the proposed lines and stations.

Link to MOM information:

http://www.njtransit.com/tm/tm_servlet. ... MProjectTo

Link to MOM information:

http://www.njtransit.com/tm/tm_servlet. ... MProjectTo

That data is a tad out of date considering the fact they rehashed everything. By the numbers in their little table, the Red Bank route does seem best; however, given the revision with the Freehold branch and the near-saturation of the NJCL, either the travel time or the service level would have to suffer. Also, if the Freehold branch ever managed to get extended onto the NEC, what would happen to the stations proposed for Howell (Rt 33) and Eatontown or whatever are in the current plan? Would these be closed or would (M)OM service be split with some percentage over the NEC and some over the NJCL? Also, why are there propsed stations for Howell (Rt 33) and Howell (Oak Glen Rd) and not one in Farmingdale? Were they opposed to a station? It just seems that the two Howell stations are relatively placed in the middle of nowhere (well, for NJ anyway). Also, and I believe this was covered earlier on, but is the currently proposed terminus in Lakehurst to be arranged such that future extension of the line to Toms River (and here's a stretch, Barnegat) might be possible? In more concrete terms, where would the Lakehurst station be and where would consists be kept, that is, would it be along the Toms River Industrial or the Southern Secondary?