MNRR West of Hudson (WoH) Study - Stewart Airport

With the limited air service available at Stewart

Stewart's air service can be greatly expanded, which is the whole point of direct rail access—to make that airport more desirable.

Thus far, it has not been mentioned that the potential for trans-Atlantic and other international flights is yet greater with Stewart, what with its long runway, originally used by heavy USAF bombers.

For that matter what about adding rail to LGA which is just a few miles as well

Never happen. Too many NIMBYs in Queens that the politicians are scared of. (Certainly applies to any proposed extension of the Astoria elevated line, the shortest extension of all possible routes.)

Not to mention, FTR, that NJ Transit will never serve LGA by rail in any permutation.

cpontani wrote:They're re-working the airspace in the northeast, so I don't necessarily buy the argument that Islip or Westchester service can't be expanded. You'd be more limited to the number of gates, but they're never close to being all full.
The great untapped air market is in the other direction…Trenton Mercer. It's right on the West Trenton SEPTA R3/NJ Transit proposed West Trenton line. Again, some shrewd marketing, somewhat frequent service, and a few shuttle buses, and you're in business. No need to ask if you build it, will they come?

The re-working of the airspace does not significantly eliminate the frequent conflicts between the approachs and departures for Westchester and Islip and LGA, JFK and EWR. Even LGA and EWR and JFK and LGA conflict with each other for some wind directions. Trenton conflicts with PHL and to some extent EWR. Stewart is much less of a conflict.

Westchester, Islip and Trenton's longest runway is not much more than half the length of Stewart's longest, and thus cannot accommodate many larger aircraft types.

The proper continued and needed role for Westchester, Islip and Trenton is to be a reliever airport for the larger facilities and handle private, corporate, charter and commuter airline flights.

Of all the airports in the NY-PHL region, only Stewart has the capability of becoming a major airport as it is not constrained by runway length and is less of a conflict for air traffic control purposes.

That is why the rail connection to Stewart can be a very viable means of providing needed additional long-haul air capacity in the region.

For that matter what about adding rail to LGA which is just a few miles as well
Never happen. Too many NIMBYs in Queens that the politicians are scared of. (Certainly applies to any proposed extension of the Astoria elevated line, the shortest extension of all possible routes.)

Not to mention, FTR, that NJ Transit will never serve LGA by rail in any permutation.

I never suggested NJT service to LGA.

The Astoria line will never be extended, but there are other options. Its only 3 miles from Sunnyside to the terminals. A tunnel could be built under the BQE and Grand Central Pkwy. $$, sure, but it can be done.

Airtrain extension could be done as well so that JFK-LGA are easily connected to facilitate transfers and thus some flights might be eliminated if the PA went back to having slots and forcing larger aircraft.

Stewart expansion, along with rail service there, just encourages more sprawl.

Stewart expansion, along with rail service there, just encourages more sprawl

That's a pro-highway argument. Beware of using it. No rail line has ever "encouraged sprawl" (meaning urban sprawl).

We're talking about SWF in this thread, not JFK, LGA, ISP, TTN or even EWR, frankly. Try and leave them out of the discussion…

drewh wrote: Airtrain extension could be done as well so that JFK-LGA are easily connected to facilitate transfers and thus some flights might be eliminated if the PA went back to having slots and forcing larger aircraft.

Do you really believe that JFK or LGA have more flights due to lack of easy connection from JFK to LGA? Any concrete evidence in support of that belief?

Irish Chieftain wrote:Thus far, it has not been mentioned that the potential for trans-Atlantic and other international flights is yet greater with Stewart, what with its long runway, originally used by heavy USAF bombers.

This was one argument for Denver's closing Stapleton and opening the new airport out in the middle of nowhere (rail link coming soon). With huge runways, they can become a Trans-Pacific hub. But that model really becomes hub-and-spoke, and is that the kind of traffic Stewart really wants to see? Now if the legislators really wanted to push it through, just play the security card, and say that an additional international gateway is necessary in case anything happens to JFK. Are they too dumb to realize EWR is across the river and the rail link is via New Jersey? Hmmm...

EWR is in the same boat as JFK in that regard.

(Also remember, both have Airtrains that connect to heavy rail and FRA commuter rail, besides. This does nothing to help their situations.)

Such facts illuminate SWF's potential rather than dull it.

cpontani wrote: This was one argument for Denver's closing Stapleton and opening the new airport out in the middle of nowhere (rail link coming soon). With huge runways, they can become a Trans-Pacific hub.

Although that was a very minor argument. The major reason was that Stapleton runways lengths were insufficient for even a 737 flight across to Salt lake City with full load in the summer. So they had to fix that primary problem, and also the problem of mountain induced adverse wind conditions at Stapleton. Hence the move away from the mountains and longer runways. Anything to do with potential trans-Pacific hub came incidentally with fixing those problems.

That's a pro-highway argument. Beware of using it. No rail line has ever "encouraged sprawl" (meaning urban sprawl).

We're talking about SWF in this thread, not JFK, LGA, ISP, TTN or even EWR, frankly. Try and leave them out of the discussion…

More sprawl won't come from the rail line itself but rather from the expansion of the airport.

The other airports definitely belong in this discussion as the whole reason SWF is even being justified is from the argument that they are at capacity. My argument is that better utilization of those facilities along with better interconnection will thus negate the need for SWF expansion.

Please define "better utilization". If it translates to more takeoffs/landings at said airports, then that is not a thing I would be for.

What kind of "sprawl" do you envision SWF's expansion causing? And how would rail service necessarily be a catalyst for same, more than access to I-87? (SWF is right at the "confluence" of the Thruway and I-84.) Any increase in SWF's activity can only benefit nearby Newburgh and New Windsor, besides.

Better utilization would be in the form of larger aircraft and back to the old auctioned slots of days past for take offs and landings. This ensures more planes can not be scheduled than the facilities can handle per hour yet still increases capacity. Easy and fast Airtrain connections between airports would allow a passenger to fly out of one airport and return to another and still easily retrieve their car.

There are 8 flights between 6am-7am from all 3 NYC airports to ATL for example - a rather inefficient use of the facilites and airspace.

Sprawl happens around airports as airport growth occurs. This is in the form of cargo facilites, office parks, hotels, and facilites for other support services.

Better utilization would be to make more runways and better terminal facilities. Currently, Stewart International Airport is a small airport with one big runway.

That's correct, but there may be room to extend the 6,000-foot crosswind runway to at least 7,000 feet. LaGuardia has only two runways, each of which is 7,000 feet.

Ken W2KB wrote:Of all the airports in the NY-PHL region, only Stewart has the capability of becoming a major airport as it is not constrained by runway length and is less of a conflict for air traffic control purposes.

What about Atlantic City International? It already sits adjacent to the NJT Atlantic City line. Combine with MOM to get funding to rebuild the Southern Secondary all the way down to Winslow. It would make a quicker trip for that Casino train, too.

Uh-oh, Southern Secondary to Winslow again… Ah, if only. And all the sense it makes, too.