Michigan Central 8076

While looking at some photos of a head on collision (freight and passenger train) that occured in Rochester, Michigan on the Bay City Branch of the MC RR, I noted a the number 8076 on one of the engines on the freight train. Does anyone have information on when this engine was built? It looks to me to be a H7 Mike but I can't be sure. This iformation will help date the photograph and give me a baseline to begin to research the wreck. Thank you.

Dave Miller of Traverse City, MI ( [email protected] ) has a book that gives the old and new numbers for NYC locomotives renumbered in 1936. He could probably tell you the new number of 8076. I have a 1939 roster (but not the renumbering info) and we could go from there.

According to "Locomotives of the New York Central Lines" by Edson & May, 8076 is one of two I-80a Atlantics built by Schenectady in 1902 as Canada Southern 484 & 485. They were renumbered in 1905 to 7914 & 7915. Then renumbered again in 1913 to 8076 & 8077. Notes indicate they were retired in 1928 and that 8077 may have been sold to the DT&I.

This makes for a mystery, to me, anyway, because an Atlantic wouldn't be pulling a freight (normally) and the difference between an Atlantic and a Mike should be obvious. Wes Barris now has a page on NYC 2-8-2s ( http://www.steamlocomotive.com/mikado/nyc.html ) but is not yet showing the Michigan Central numbers. I know the MC H7s were in the 7900s before renumbering, so it's logical that the H10s (apparently MC's only class of Mikes other than the H6 and H7) would have been numbered in the 8000s. I don't seem to have a photo that verifies this, though I thinkI have seen one. If this is true, 8076 would have been an H10b built in 1924 by Alco or Lima. If I turn anything else up I will get back here.

The Michigan Central had two different 8076's and neither one seems to fit the photo description.

8076 was a I-80a Atlantics built by Schenectady in 1902 as Canada Southern 484 - having been given this number in 1913 ( renumbered from 7914).

The other 8076 was a A-2 class 0-4-0 switcher rebuilt from a 4-4-0. Originially numbered #4 - renumbered to 8076 ( also reclassed as A-80) in 1905 sold to Yuill Bros. in 1911.

Rule out the H10's as they were originally numbered (H10) 123-132 and (H10a) 237-251 and were renumbered 2223-2232 and 2337-2351.

Could it has been a K-80m pacific - 8476 ?

I finally tracked down the source of my suspicions. The original H10 (no subclass) WAS No. 8000 (became 2090). But it doesn't look like there were any other 2-8-2s originally numbered in the 80-- series.

By the way, does anyone out there have a photo of H10b No. 2345? It was the first steam engine I rode in, in Jackson, Michigan, around 1946.

I will look forward to the solution of the mystery of "8076." Any chance you could get the photo scanned and send a copy?

Thanks to all of you for the information concerning the MC 8076. The engine shown in the photo is most certainly not an H10b. The only portion of the engine shown is the front, which has no feedwater heater but has a large old style headlight and looks to be quite a bit larger than the engine on the passenger train which is flipped on its side. I was thinking that it may be a H7 or H5 Mike.
The passenger engine (on the second train involved) is a ten-wheeler, however, no engine number is visable. I would very much appreaciate anything you gentlemen can come up with regarding information on this mystery. Richard, I will get a scan to you to peruse. Thanks again.
Charlie Whipp

Charlie sent me a scan of the three photos of the wreck. I am sure Dave Miller is right and this is an Atlantic (4-4-2) of class I80, built by Schenectady in 1901-02 and numbered 8072-8081. According to my source (George H. Drury's "Guide to North American Steam Locomotives - Kalmbach Publishing) this group was built for the Canada Southern, Michigan Central's operating unit in Ontario. The locomotive might have been transferred to the U.S. later on. The large early electric headlight suggests a date very early in the twentieth century, probably not as late as the 1920s. Comparing the position of the locomotives in the three photos, the front end of the overturned locomotive is not that far from the cab roof shown in the view taken from the upright 8076, suggesting it is a good deal shorter than a Mikado. The 8076 has the slanted cylinder-valve assembly characteristic of locomotives with the Stephenson inside-connected valve gear (though some were retrofitted with Baker or other valve gears without altering the slant).

Thank you everyone. I'll work from 1913 on (suggested by Dave) to research information on this wreck. Was it a common practice to transfer locomotives around the various parts of the NYCL at this time?
Charlie Whipp

Haven't been on this site for quite some time, Charley. I'm interested in the subject, because I've never heard of any wrecks in Rochester. Do the photos show exactly where this happened? I sure would be interested in seeing those pictures if at all possible.