Metrolink Crash in Chatsworth, CA - 9/12/08

I still can't put together how a guy that was physically qualified for how ever many years didn't at least have the brains to say oops I’m getting ready to pass a signal better look up and see what it is even if he was texting.... I also find it a bit puzzling that he was Delayed in block and did not have any brakes on at all before the collision. I mean if I remember correctly he was going around a curve before the signal and the DIB requires him to approach the next signal prepared to stop and most guys that I know in that situation at least have the brakes applied just in case they have a stop signal or at least be on there toes in case... Unfortunately those are things that we will never have the answer to.

That is a lot of texts, sort of more than I was expecting..... Idk. I hope this doesn't turn out that 25 people died bc of texting. If that is the case the rr needs to address the issue of texting in a very clear way. Of course, the vast majority of engineers would behave more responsibly than this guy did! But if texting alone can cause such a tragedy, well, that is a legitimate issue, unfortunately.

Bleh

concordgirl wrote:That is a lot of texts, sort of more than I was expecting..... Idk. I hope this doesn't turn out that 25 people died bc of texting. If that is the case the rr needs to address the issue of texting in a very clear way. Of course, the vast majority of engineers would behave more responsibly than this guy did! But if texting alone can cause such a tragedy, well, that is a legitimate issue, unfortunately.

Bleh

Oh trust me on this one not only are the R.R's are coming down on cell phone usage the FRA is as well!

same thing always happens in life, one person takes something too far, ruins it for everyone else...... more regulation is a pain in the a** for everyone involved

Well unfortunatley regulations are usually the result of the "weakest link" in the chain.

Here in WV the Governor is pushing though laws to ban all use of cell phone/text messages in all moving vechicles (cars, trains, etc.) as a direct result of the Metrolink train crash.

You know phone company records would have no way of being able to record a "text in progress" for all we know he could have been typing away and not even see the UP train. We'll never know unless the UP crew can shed any light on the last few seconds before collision!

WSH wrote:Well unfortunatley regulations are usually the result of the "weakest link" in the chain.

Here in WV the Governor is pushing though laws to ban all use of cell phone/text messages in all moving vechicles (cars, trains, etc.) as a direct result of the Metrolink train crash!

imho that's the way to go – i don't see why we need to have separate laws for each type of vehicle. hell, not even vehicles – stationary construction machinery such as cranes is problematic too. honestly there should just be one law that says you should not be able to operate heavy machinery (which would include boats cars trains etc) and use a cell phone in any capacity (calling texting taking pics etc) at the same time.

yeah you are right for the most part. but there will always be the law vs. the unwritten rules of the railroad, know what I mean? also, engineers sometimes do use the cell phone as a legitimate backup way of communicating. especially on railroads where all of the equipment is less than 100% functional, as a backup form of communication w the conductors. I'm not talking abt an actual conversation, I mean a short exchange of info. Also, I do not think talking on the phone is anywhere near as bad as texting. It's not good, but it's not horrible in most cases.

Texting, well-- I am an extremely fast reader, and I won't text and drive, it's just too dangerous. Your eyes are off the road for so long. You gotta read it, hit reply, wait for the screen to reload, start typing, hit send..... I'm a very fast texter also, and I have a keyboard phone, but it is a diff situ form talking on the phone while your eyes are still on the road. Granted some people are f-ing idiots and can still be driving distracted just from being on the phone, but I think most engineers are able to talk to a conductor and watch the tracks and signals at the same time. If you are texting, forget abt it, you will just plain not be looking.

"I hope this doesn't turn out that 25 people died bc of texting."

Yes, that's exactly what they are saying is the case. I think the statistics about the guy's usage on the day in question dispels any questions about "well, maybe he.....". And I'm betting at some point they go farther back in his cell phone records and find that this was an ongoing pattern, not just a one-day blitz.

Unfortunately, humans will always make mistakes, use bad judgment, and just screw up. In this case there were already prohibitions against using electronic devices but the guy evidently went way overboard in ignoring that regulation. What really bites is that this is being used as an excuse to try to ram a bunch of other regulations through which have nothing whatever to do with this incident.

BR&P wrote:What really bites is that this is being used as an excuse to try to ram a bunch of other regulations through which have nothing whatever to do with this incident.

Ditto.....

Let this also be a lesson to other buffs out there..... When your guys are working, let them work! Once I was with a friend who is a buff in NY, and he sent a text msg to an engineer friend of his. My friend and I were on the train in the coach behind the loco... The engineer didn't write back, he is NOT like the guy in this accident at all, but a minute later he blew the horn and we saw a couple of dumba** kids go running across the tracks. I told my friend he'd better let the engineer focus on his job, but I never forgot that it happened. Everything was fine but it definitely illustrated to me the potential dangers.

Bottom line is, railroaders and buffs both need to exercise a little restraint.

AEM7AC920 wrote:if I remember correctly he was going around a curve before the signal and the DIB requires him to...

The track is straight from Chatsworth station to the signal.

tarheelman wrote:

icgsteve wrote: wow, that is a lot of callous disregard for the safety of his train.

If any of those messages were composed and sent while the train was moving, I agree. No matter how routine the job was to him, if the train was moving, he shouldn't have been doing anything that potentially could distract him for even a few seconds---it's too dangerous.

Uh lets not loose sight of the fact here that he was one of the victims too - the engineer died as well. This seems to be forgotten as of late.

I guess everyone here is angels and doesn't do anything that might distract them from ANYTHING that they do that could be dangerous.

No one drives and talks on the phone and gives 110 percent attention to the task at hand while motoring down the road in their car.....

No one ever leaves a pot on the stove cooking while they do some thing else, they just sit there and stare at it......

No one has ever said to themselves "wow, that was a really stupid thing to do......that was a close one".........

It wasn't a suicide (IMO), but its not like he went out and purposely caused this wreck and killed these folks along with himself.

He made a mistake, albeit a tragic one, but we are all humans, and we all make mistakes, even you "angels" here.

Like I said earlier in this thread, there are plenty of other "legal" distractions to the engineer that could have caused the same result. Lets not get carried away here.

"Train XYZ to the Dispatcher, my paperwork blew out of its clip and is lying on the floor. Permission to stop the train to pick up my paperwork that is laying at my feet, over?" RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT. Oh wait a sec, talking on the radio could be a distraction as well - can't do that either i guess...... Oh well, I guess the train will just stop and we will sit here for eternity.......

Well, there we have it, offically from the NTSB. Unless their further investigation turns up any more relevant evidence, showing that something else caused the crash, I guess we can say "that's a wrap."

So let me get this straight: the engineer is on his regular run; he knows he sometimes meets that scheduled freight train in that area; knows he needs to be watching for signals related to that frequent meet; and he's sending text messages on his cell phone while operating the train? Give me a break!

Jt, you're right. We all do make serious mistakes every day, with sometimes serious consequences. It is so damned easy to screw up, but really this was a bit much.

And I predict there will be hell to pay in the railroad industry for this guy's apparently poor judgment.

Head-end View wrote: And I predict there will be hell to pay in the railroad industry for this guy's apparently poor judgment.

You betcha. I think part of the reason is not just this guy and what he did. Part of the reason is, ridership is up, way more people are riding trains daily than even a few years ago, due to gas prices and suburban sprawl. So it's just a higher profile thing. Any screwup will have more consequences than in the past, because more people ride trains so more people are actually gonna give a s*** when they see that newspaper headline.

I wish, though, that whatever comes out of this would be something that makes sense, and not something retarded. But it's too late for that, I think Congress is already involved. So whatev.

Blaming this engineer for this crash is like blaming the low ranking prison guards for the abuses at Abu Ghraib, sure they should have know better but they are products of their culture. They did not operate independent of their coworkers and the institutions that they were employed by. This accident, and this engineer seemingly being addicted to texting on the job, could not happen without others knowing and failing to take action to correct the bad behaviour.

Does anybody know if the NTSB has interviewed the UP engineer yet?