Metra F40PH Rebuild Program

doepack wrote: One thing I've noticed about the other agencies ordering these units is that the majority of them seem to be going with the 3C version, which runs the HEP off of a separate generator, as opposed to Metra's 3S version that provides HEP via a static inverter connected to the prime mover. Since Metra was the first agency to order these units, does anyone know if MPI offered the 3C version at the time? And if so, why didn't they go that route?

I'm pretty sure CalTrain's -3Cs were ordered and delivered right around the same time as Metra's MPs.

Metra is the only agency to get a -3S... the numerous other agencies, most recently MARC, have gotten the -3C. It is also correct that Caltrain ordered their MP's right after Metra... its most likely a choice made by Metra to go with -3S's

doepack wrote:One thing I've noticed about the other agencies ordering these units is that the majority of them seem to be going with the 3C version, which runs the HEP off of a separate generator, as opposed to Metra's 3S version that provides HEP via a static inverter connected to the prime mover. Since Metra was the first agency to order these units, does anyone know if MPI offered the 3C version at the time? And if so, why didn't they go that route?

The way I understand it, the 3S version was developed for Metra which insists on running the HEP directly off the prime mover.

Metra baught the -3S version because they wanted as similar a locomotive to the F40-series units as possible. And they will be one step closer to that when the MP36PH-3S's are rebuilt--they will be rebuilt to have the prime mover run in notch 8 for HEP. Why? Problems maintaining HEP for long periods of time on long trains and vibrations causing all sorts of problems. Main generators and drive shafts are a common replacement nowadays.

AMTK84 wrote:Metra baught the -3S version because they wanted as similar a locomotive to the F40-series units as possible. And they will be one step closer to that when the MP36PH-3S's are rebuilt--they will be rebuilt to have the prime mover run in notch 8 for HEP. Why? Problems maintaining HEP for long periods of time on long trains and vibrations causing all sorts of problems. Main generators and drive shafts are a common replacement nowadays.

Thanks. Whole lotta shakin' goin' on, huh? But after doing a little homework and asking around, it seems that fuel economy was the driving force in Metra's decision to go with 3S, because the units as originally ordered could supply HEP via the inverter from notch 3 instead of notch 8, thus providing the dual advantage of fuel savings and noise reduction. The failures of the main generator and drive shafts plus the excessive vibrations could be traced to the aluminum and composite materials used in the construction to keep an already heavy unit from being TOO heavy, but I couldn't find a consensus on that, and is a previously stated opinion that I happen to agree with. Still, it's ironic that they're modifying (or in this case downgrading) these units to provide HEP at notch 8, because that's going to cause more noise and fuel consumption, thus effectively negating the intended benefits, which I'm sure isn't what Metra originally had in mind. Paying the price for cutting corners during construction, I guess.

Meanwhile, other agencies tend to like the 3C version because of the additional horsepower available for traction since the HEP has its own generator, which allows quicker acceleration out of stations and higher mainline speeds. (The 3C units ordered by MARC for instance, have a top rated speed of 108mph, which will be useful since they're going to be operating on certain sections of the NEC. I don't think the 3S is rated quite that fast, but it doesn't really matter since Metra has no routes with max speeds above 79 anyway). I don't know if the 3C version offers the same fuel economy as the 3S, but the quicker acceleration is a benefit that Metra could certainly use on the Rock's suburban branch, which as we all know is a light rail line in a commuter railroad's body. Also, since Caltrain took delivery of these units (to run their 'baby bullet service") right around the same time as Metra did, I haven't heard of Caltrain having nearly the same amount of chronic failures that's still plaguing Metra five years later. However, I'll say that's a bit unsubstantiated, because neither agency has released (to my knowledge) any official figures that show MDBF (mean distance between failures) statistics for these units, which would provide the needed clarity...

Any new info on when the first rebuilds will be back on the property?

From On the By-level May 2009 http://metrarail.com/OTBL/current.pdf "For instance, we know the first contract to be signed, for the remanufacturing of 40 locomotives for $71 billion, will retain 62 employees at the Progress Rail facility in Mayfield, Ky. These locomotives were built and delivered between 1977 and 1980 and have major components that are in need of rehabilitation. The work will extend the life of the engines by 20 to 25 years." Wonder what road numbers will be in this batch of rebuilds. This if I remember correctly will give them 66 refurbished locomotives in the fleet. To bad 611 and 614 won't be part of that rebuild program still good engines in my book.

Let's see what the first ones come back looking and running like before we say it's too bad the 611 and 614 aren't part of that rebuild program. Who knows, they could come back running as nicely as the MP36's.

Noooooo!!!!!! What a nightmare!!!!!

Little piece from the Tennessee Central Railway Museum:

TCRM Diesel Locomotives Sold
By Terry Bebout
The sale of the TCRM EMD ex-Amtrak F40's has been
finalized and the payment has been received. The units are being
prepared to ship and will be METX 215 and 216 in their new life.
They will be shipped to Metra's contractor, Progress Rail in
Kentucky and will receive a $1.7 million overhaul each.

cool, do Metra F40;s have toilets, I'll assume these new amtrak ones do

metraRI wrote:Little piece from the Tennessee Central Railway Museum:

TCRM Diesel Locomotives Sold
By Terry Bebout
The sale of the TCRM EMD ex-Amtrak F40's has been
finalized and the payment has been received. The units are being
prepared to ship and will be METX 215 and 216 in their new life.
They will be shipped to Metra's contractor, Progress Rail in
Kentucky and will receive a $1.7 million overhaul each.

In the MCS section, they show $1.2mil from the stimulus package to rebuild 1 F40.
IIRC the TCMry bought 2 F40 + 2 MCS units. They did most of the repainting 3 years ago.

The B&LE F units have been repainted into blue/cream L&N livery.

Metra's units don't have bathrooms. If an engineer has to use one, they can go back to one of the cars.

Anyone know if they are going to modify them to 3,200 HP to match the "native" Metra units?

I haven't heard anything specific, but I believe this was already done. Amtrak's first (1976) order of F40s had 3,000 hp, just like a GP40. The Chicago RTA specified a 3,200 hp rating on its first order two years later, and from then on most F40s were delivered with a 3,200 hp rating. VIA Rail's units are supposedly an exception to this (see here: http://www.cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php?titl ... 0PH_series). If the new "new " units are only 3,000 hp, some adjustments under the hood are probably all it would take to get the extra 200 hp out.