Discussion related to commuter rail and rapid transit operations in the Chicago area including the South Shore Line, Metra Rail, and Chicago Transit Authority.

Moderators: metraRI, JamesT4

  by doepack
 
With expanded services on the NCS, UP-W, and SWS lines on the imminent horizon, it also appears that the much discussed Metra Electric extension to Peotone may have cleared a significant funding hurdle. Congressional Represenative Jesse Jackson Jr. has recently announced via circular the authorization and appropriation of federal grant money under the new transportation bill to fund extension of Metra's Electric District from its current terminus at University Park (Stuenkel Road) south to Peotone, to provide service for the coming airport there. Monee has been mentioned as a possible intermediate station along the 9 mile extension. No firm timetable has been set for construction yet, my guess is it probably won't start until the airport is finished, however long that may be...

Some interesting comments about the plan can be found here (you'll have to scroll down the page a bit...)

http://www.chicagoist.com/archives/2005 ... irport.php

  by byte
 
An extension is all fine and good, but I'm kind of not so keen on this one, because the MED is by far the slowest of all Metra lines. I know the schedule's basically been the same for a long time now (I have a schedule for the line when it was run by the ICG and many trains have the same times, give or take two minutes) but it would be nice if they could work on getting trains running quicker before they add more distance to get to the terminal. Maybe this can be "worked on" when the entire highliner fleet is replaced (the old cars seem to have relatively low top speeds) though if it's something that can indeed be improved upon, the track and roadbed would definitely need attention as well.

  by Scotty Burkhardt
 
Funny this got brought up....

Don't count on this project happening anytime soon. IDOT only has 3 people devoted to this project. Mind you this project was supposed to be completed in 2001 and is now into its 14th year. IDOT only has about 1/2 of the land and has enough funding to pay for office rent.

On a side note, P.B.R. is great.....sorry

  by MikeF
 
byte wrote:the old cars seem to have relatively low top speeds
The Highliners are capable of performance almost as good as the NICTD fleet (prior to AC conversion). However, Metra blocked the controllers at the series point, meaning the cars are limited to about half-speed in service. Why? Dunno. And I'm not sure whether they've done anything to restrict the speed of the new 1200's.

  by Nasadowsk
 
Series? I can believe parrallel, but *series*?

There's two ways you knock down an MU, generally:

1) Set the current limit lower
2) Mess with or remove field shunting.

#1 will drop acceleration. #2 will drop balance speed. It'll hurt acceleration at higher speeds too.

More recent EMUs have multiple acceleration rates - one annoying mod the LIRR did years ago was limit the M-1's to the diesel like P2 rate, for various stupid reasons. With P3 enabled, they're like NJ Arrows or a Silverliner, with P4 set to the design limit, it's like a subway car.

Dropping the acceleration rate is dumb - it drops current draw but it drops efficiency a lot too because the controller notches up slower. Only when all the resistances are cut out is the train operating at peak efficiency.

Of course, on an AC inverter, you set the limits in the computer and you get whatever youwant - theoretically, you can have really hard acceleration right up to, say 40mph, then prevent the train from ever eceeding thqat speed.

Provided your cars are light enough, the current capacity of the system's good enough, and you let the train run to it's abiulities....Take Septa's Market-Frankford line some day, and you'll see what an electric can really do. Or an NJT MU out of Hoboken...

I suspect aftershocks from that 70's vintage accident, the highliner's weight,plus limitations on the 1.5kv system caused metra to take the simple/stupid way out of things and just chop the cars back a bit. I don't get why a line that's more rapid transit in layout than commuter rail is running equipment that by design has long dwells at stations (though the layout cuts on the car getting blast cooled in the winter, though the LIRR's stuff doesn't suffer from that and has 2X the door area per side anyway...)

  by MikeF
 
Ride an AC-converted South Shore train as it takes off westbound at Grandview in South Bend and "you'll see what an electric can really do" as well.

The Highliners have two acceleration rates. If I remember correctly, under normal conditions crews are supposed to use the low rate north of 12th Street and when switching, and the high rate elsewhere.

While I'm well aware of the various methods of limiting the speed of electric cars, I've been told Metra (or more likely, ICG) simply blocked the controllers (that is, the "master controller" or "throttle" in each cab) from moving beyong the series -- yes, series -- point. If I remember the specs correctly, that limits the cars to a balancing speed of about 38 mph.

You never tire of ripping on our 1500 v line, do you?

  by Nasadowsk
 
Well, if you look worldwide, 1.5kv is on the way out for mainline applications, though it's growing for LRT. There are reasons why - it's one of the more constrained systems out there, and conversion upward to 3kv (which has had excellent results in the US and abroad) isn't that hard with modern inverter stuff. Practically, it's something Metra/NICTD should look at for a few reasons:

* Rolling stock weight in the US is out of control. Heavy trains require more power to accelerate, and high acceleration is key when station spacing is tight. AC inverters will help but they're not magic. Going to a stainless body should help too, but again, no magic here.

* Doubling the line voltage automatically cuts the current in 1/2.

* Less current means lower losses - it's why third rail sucks so much for long distances and high speeds - the current goes way too high, meaning tight substation spacing.

* Even with heavy (read: expensive) gauge trolley wire, you still have big losses. Wires have resistance, which is why you need multiple substations in the first place (if wires were all 0 ohm, you'd need one big substation in one spot and no others). A higher voltage means less drop which means more power at the ends of the circuit.

* The incremental costs of building 1.5/3kv equipment are nil today. Just a somewhat different converter for the DC link.

* 3kv gives you longer substation spacing, i.e. lower cost PLUS it means a train's more likely to be nearby, thus meaning regeneration is actually worth the investment vs replacing every substation on the line. Regen alone is a big money saver.

* The costs of doubling the voltage at this end are low - clearences are generally already good enough, and you can change over as part of a natural replacement cycle. Going to high voltage AC would be a huge outlay - you'd have to replace the entire system as NJT did.

There's no reason to go rip out the existing system. But as subs get replaced, and things get changed out, it makes sense to plan for an upgrade - the costs are minimal and the advantages are big.

1.5kv was a great idea back when the IC electrified - the other choices were third rail (bad), high voltage AC (still unproven and developing, plus it then required 25hz power), or DC at some other voltage. There were no 3kv MUs in the 20's. On top of which, 1.5kv was already popular with interurbans and streetcar lines (though ironically the South Shore was AC at 2 voltages) - a standard GE or Westinghouse system existed for the car equipment.

Over the years, technology caught up. 3kv MUs appeared in NJ and worldwide, rectifier technology matured at a fast pace, more recent power semiconductors made things even better. Just like the NEC's 25hz system is a techlogical dinosaur with lots of baggage, the 1.5kv system's a dinosaur too. It served it's purpose, but today's demands of very heavy cars and the need to have high acceleration to stay competitive with driving, mean it's going to get stretched to the limit, which isn't a good thing - witness the LIRR's issues of recent years.

It's better than diesel operation, that's for sure...

Last time I was on ME, I recall the train getting up around 60mph, but this was a few years ago. The acceleration wasn't that great on the Highliners though, especially given the remakably tight station spacing...

  by Tadman
 
60 mph on a highliner? Wow they must have put a spare NASA rocket on that train. I think Chicago Rail Link's sh*tty old geeps could out-run a ME train these days - it's depressing seeing a 6-8 car train of MU's getting outrun by cars on lakeshore drive. Now I know CSS trains can handle solid 79mph runs, and those are great - especialy out in the dunes where they sustain that speed for a while.

  by MikeF
 
Tadman wrote:Now I know CSS trains can handle solid 79mph runs,
Pull the blocks out of the Highliner controllers and they'll perform almost as well, albeit not with the impressive acceleration of the AC-converted NICTD cars. If I could find my Highliner specs I could verify the top speed, but I think it's 70 mph.

  by Tadman
 
As I understand it, sans-blocks, 75mph tops. This according to 20-year old book I used to keep in the can when I was a kid.