Maximum HO grades for HO?

Have you considered making multiple layers?

On my layout I have 2 levels connected by a grade that is only used by the switchers to move a few cars at a time between the two. You get all of the experience of having multiple levels crossing over one another without making your mainlines have any hills at all! With DCC you can really make some fabulous operations this way.

For what I have "layers" wouldn't work; you see I have already a completed (more-or-less) layout in which I'd like to add an upper deck, so I have to figure out if I can connect the upper deck to the current one somehow or not even bother to follow through with it at all...it all depends on what I can do with the grade itself..............................................

I've now narrowed it down to 2 choices: A= a 2% (or3%) grade connected the proposed upper level, so that each level would be capable of independent operation, and it wouldn't be a mandatory grade, so smaller engines wouldn't have to deal with it. And then there's B: A 2% grade, although I'd like to go less than 2% (perhaps 1.5% ) if distance permits, which would also connect the upper level, however with a dogbone configuration and a good amount of 24"R curves. If I went a straight 2% I would use the grades by Woodland Scenics. The other thing is that option B would effectively eliminate a duckunder. It isn't the worse thing in the world, but I could do without it. I don't know what's worse, the duckunder or having a long grade. Also, the climb I am looking to do is approximately 10-12" in height, so the 2% would be about 48' in continuous length.

Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Mark

What about the graduated pier sets sold by Atlas and Bachmann? Does anybody know what % grade those are?

Those trestle sets by Atlas, Bachman, Tyco, and Life-Like.... are all dependent upon how far you space the piers apart. The further you space the graduated piers, the less severe the grade will be.

Again, they are ok to use underneath a secondary, industrial lead, or possibly a seldom used branchline, but I'd certainly steer way clear of using them on a busy mainline.

Also, unless I modeled an industry with a trestle for unloading hoppers, I'd only use the trestle set to gradually raise up the track, and bury them beneath plaster, mortar, and cinder ballast. The aren't very realistic, nor prototypical since they're rarely seen under any existing track (since the '60's, anyway) and should be buried under the roadbed.

Very interesting...................suppose you intend to run relatively short trains like a locomotive and 3 passenger cars? Or a freight train with one locomotive and say not more than a half-dozen cars? Would they be able to handle a higher % grade, say 2%. And BTW, how many freight cars can one locomotive comfortably pull on a flat layout? As I'm sure you can guess, I'm new at this.

My layout is 30' x 15' with two levels 6 inches apart. I have 2 hidden grades that rise the 6" in about 20'. I knew when I built it that it would be rather steep, but I built both grades with no curves, and 3' straight and level sections on both ends of the grades using code 100 flextrack. I actually over weigh my cars with the stock weights plus 20 pennys in each car. I'm able to run trains up to 40-45 cars with no problems as long as I keep the longer cars (60' and over) in the rear half of the train. It takes 3 or 4 locos to pull the trains that long, but I've really had no problems with grades that steep. Smooth and straight trackwork and the heavier cars seem to work just fine. It did take some trial and error to get the power to car ratio figured out, but once I did that everything was fine. The locos I use are mostly Atlas 4 axle and Kato 6 axle.

I'm pretty sure that the number a locomotive can pull on a flat surface is variable. Characteristics of the locomotive, the cars being pulled, and even the track can affect that number.

You guys are way ahead of me. (Chuckle!) I'm planning my first layout as a retirement project. I'll be using a standard 4 x 8 or maybe 5 x 9 foot board, with 22 inch curves 'cause I intend to run long passenger cars and a 6-axle freight locomotive. I was going to make it interesting using a standard pier-set from Atlas or Bachmann but from what you guys are saying, that might not be feasible 'cause the grades would be too steep. But thanks for the input. I'm hoping to learn enough of this stuff before actually getting started, that I can avoid some of these pitfalls.

Head-end View wrote:...with 22 inch curves 'cause I intend to run long passenger cars and a 6-axle freight locomotive.

You may want to read up on radius requirements. 80 foot passenger cars will barely stay on the rail at 23", and I wouldn't recommend anything less than 30 or higher for 80' cars. There is an excellent article on this in January's Modal Railroad Hobbyist magazine. It is a free download here. http://vps2642.inmotionhosting.com/~modelr5/node/669.

Geez, this is sounding more and more discouraging. So what you guys are saying is that with a 5 x 9 layout, all I'll have room to run is freight trains on a flat surface 'cause there won't be enough room for the wide curves needed for passenger cars, or the long run needed for a trestle/bridge grade. Hmmm...........

If you go with 24" radius you'll be fine. I'm not talking of ANY grades, but I've run 89' auto rack trains in HO on 24" radius curves for years. Not the most prototypical looking , but they DO run fine. with a 5x9, you could get away with 28" which would be even better for you. You probably won't get any decent grades on a 5x9, but you could make it two separate levels. Go with Shinohara track, a bit pricey, but well worth it. You will not be disappointed in their track.

The ONLY problem I ever had on 24" Radius was a set of those Auto-Max from Athearn. It says they can on 24 but it just didn't work for me. I've run Walthers 89' Auto Racks, Athearn 89' Flats, Walthers Depressed Center and Heavy Duty Flat Cars. etc.


While I have everyone's attention, I just ordered a helix kit from Ashlin Trains Railroad Miniatures. Any info, I know they've been advertised in MR or RMC. Looks like real nice stuff.

---> Mark

Keeper, that article you provided the link to was very interesting and informative. And Mem160, thanks for your observations also. At least I'm finding all this out ahead of time, before I start buying the track. Yes, 28" is probably about the widest I could use with a 5' wide board. We'll see.

IF you're going to put a grade in it go with the Woodland Scenic Incline Sets. Don't bother with the Atlas incline sets. Woodland Scenics are a set incline, and can be scenicked, far more prototypical, AND probably would cost you only slightly more than the Atlas piers in the end You'll probably have to go with a 4%, maybe get away with a 3%, but the thing is on a 5'x9' Layout, the trains you run can only be so long. You're not looking at 25-30 cars, or even 15-20 cars....more like 10-12 at most, so you may get away with a little steeper grade. But if it were me, I wouldn't bother with any grades on a Layout of that size. Once you get that steep, as someone stated earlier here, you are almost certain to have uncoupling problems on your layout. But it can be done.

Good Luck, whatever you decide to do....
..... ----> Mark

Mem160 wrote:If you go with 24" radius you'll be fine. I'm not talking of ANY grades, but I've run 89' auto rack trains in HO on 24" radius curves for years. Not the most prototypical looking , but they DO run fine. with a 5x9, you could get away with 28" which would be even better for you. You probably won't get any decent grades on a 5x9, but you could make it two separate levels. Go with Shinohara track, a bit pricey, but well worth it. You will not be disappointed in their track.

The ONLY problem I ever had on 24" Radius was a set of those Auto-Max from Athearn. It says they can on 24 but it just didn't work for me. I've run Walthers 89' Auto Racks, Athearn 89' Flats, Walthers Depressed Center and Heavy Duty Flat Cars. etc.


While I have everyone's attention, I just ordered a helix kit from Ashlin Trains Railroad Miniatures. Any info, I know they've been advertised in MR or RMC. Looks like real nice stuff.

---> Mark

Mark...Please explain your reasons for recomending Shinohara track? I've used Atlas code 100 NS track for years and never had a problem. The quality is consistent and good, it's easy to work with, it's available at almost any hobby shop, it's relativly inexpensive, and when properly ballasted and weathered looks every bit as good as anything else from over 2 feet away. This isn't a knock on Shinohara or any other brand of track...If I was building a diorama that would be subject to close scrutiny I might choose one of the botique brands, but for operational purposes, especially for someone building their first "real" layout, I think Atlas would be the way to go. JMHO.