Major derailment @ Spuyten Duyvil

Noel Weaver wrote:I just got word from a source that I am not at liberty to disclose that Amtrak just got the OK to resume service between Albany and New York. At least they have saved the busiest part of their day.
Noel Weaver

For another source, official Amtrak twitter from 2:57PM EST (default on the site if you aren't logged in is Pacific Time): https://twitter.com/Amtrak/status/407237056750833664" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

" UPDATE: Service btwn NYC/Albany has been restored. Trains are moving at reduced speeds through affected area. Delays are expected."

Right now Amtrak is showing the first southbound Empire Service train arriving at New York Penn will be No. 256 due to arrive at 4 10 PM, twenty minutes late. En route is 284 which departed Rensselaer on time (2 15 PM) and is actually expected to arrive slightly ahead of the scheduled time of 4 50 PM. First northbound departure from New York Penn will be 291 the Ethan Allen at 5 15 PM, one hour behind schedule. Link

NTSB briefing live now on WNBC's website: http://t.co/A0FFyHa9cW" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Message edited to add a recap of the presser:
- Recapped train origin/destination
- Recapped entire train derailed
- Acknowledged "several" fatalities, deferred media to NYC officials for specifics
- Will have multiple teams looking at all aspects: data from event recorders, condition of cars and locomotive (specifically mentioned mechanicals, brakes), talking to crew, document interior of cars "to determine how people were injured or killed"
- Investigation will involve FRA, Metro North, NYS authorities, Teamsters ROW employees, ACRE, Emergency Response organization
- "We've already OK'ed the uprighting of the locomotive" to prevent any further fuel spill, and uprighting of cars onto their sides to see if there are any other victims trapped underneath (Gov. Cuomo already said cadaver dogs and other means were used to determine that there are NO further victims)
- Once all "perishable" evidence is gathered/documented, NTSB will OK Metro-North to clear scene and rebuild trackage
- NTSB expects to be on-scene for a week to 10 days
- Thanked first responders

Q&A Session after the prepared statement:
- NTSB: We have not spoken to the conductor. We anticipate interviewing train crews in next day or two.
- Could this and July derailment be connected? NTSB says "we'll be looking at that, but at this time we have no indication that it's a factor."
- Confirmed train was pushed from loco at rear of train.
- Reporter asked if it's true that engineer applied brakes, but they didn't work - NTSB said "we don't know at this point, we'll be looking at it."
- Were cab signals functioning properly? NTSB: Again, don't know, will be including this in investigation
- Was speed a factor? Was it because of the curve? Cuomo: The curve has been here for many many years, trains take the curve every day without incident, so it's not the curve, it's something specific to this incident, "it can't just be the curve." Cuomo also clarified that the July freight derailment was nearby, but NOT at the same location, so there's no belief the two events are related.
- What is the speed limit? NTSB verified 30 mph at the curve, 70 right before, 75 a little further up. We don't yet know what the train speed was, but we have data from cab car, have not yet taken data from locomotive.

## End of press conference ##

Jeff Smith wrote:

Rockingham Racer wrote:I wonder if there's a possibility of MNRR running extra trains on the Harlem Line up to White Plains to handle the crowd on the Hudson Line. I also wonder how many buses it's going to take to handle the shuttle situation over to Tarrytown. With today's crowded trains, one big mess for sure.

There's no doubt this stretch will be OOS for a while; weeks maybe? So I'm sure they're working on service plans now.

When Danbury was cut off, stranded train sets were moved over the Beacon. In this case, work engines would have to tow the EMU's from CH over the other section of the Beacon from Fishkill. Not an easy move, including a reverse at Fishkill.

You've got the option of shuttle service to Yonkers, then buses to the subway or the station on Fordham Rd. At some point maybe they can open one track.

There's also the extremely unlikely option of running MNRR trains down the Empire. But that would involve either towing EMU's, or using only diesels. The MNRR P32's don't have the right third rail equipment. You could contract with Amtrak for extra trains, but I believe they're short on compatible P32's as it is.

From what i understand and have seen firsthand, they have catenary strung in the empire connection tunnel till just north of the bellmouth. In theory you could sneak them in that way. All of the trains would need P32/P40/P42 and facing north/west. Just keep the toaster attached, pull it in to a platform, then when ready, push it back out again, start up the prime mover, decouple, brake test and on your way.

Is the curve banked or elevated to any degree? Does anyone know if were past proposals to modify the curve to allow greater operating speeds?

I second DutchRailnut.
This is a horrible tragedy. 4 people are dead, 60+ injured.
FDNY, FDNY EMS and all the other responding agencies seem to have done a great job at handling this incident and should be commended for their efforts.

As far as continuity of service goes, please keep this situation in perspective; this isn't some track maintenance re-routing, its an incident where people died and people's livelihood is on the line.
MNRR is going to implement some sort of bypass bussing around the incident scene, until they get approval to re-open an undamaged track.
Then, that track is going to operate under serious speed restrictions.
Eventually, the NTSB will release the scene back to MNRR to clean up and repair.
MNRR MoW track crews will go to work rebuilding the location, probably working around the clock until full service is restored.
So let's just drop the fantasizing about MNRR equipment using the Empire line into Penn, or restoring full service on the Beacon Line, or any of the other foaming fantasies, okay?

No they can't make super elevation more than what it is due to freight operations on same track.

Fishrrman wrote:[[ There's no doubt this stretch will be OOS for a while; weeks maybe? So I'm sure they're working on service plans now. ]]

Track 1 looks completely undamaged and they'll probably have that back in service by tomorrow.

Track 2 -- even though it appears to be the track that the derailed train was operating on -- looks to have sustained remarkably little damage, and restoring it should take only a couple of days once the damaged equipment is removed. (Aside: this would indicate to me that the speed of the train lifted it right up and over the rails, rather than pushing them over)

From the recap of the press conference a few posts ago, NTSB expects to be over a week on the site. Could that just mean Track 2 (and 3), and Track 1 could be open for service? Or would they shut the whole thing down? OR is it not possible to know? JS

the NTSB will once evidence is collected turn track back over to MNCR, they already gave permission to righten the locomotive and cars.
and prep them for movement.

Has anyone heard from truck or FL9AC? Hope they weren't involved in this incident.

I saw an interview on TV with someone who was in one of the coaches that overturned. He was in a seat by the doorwell where there was no window. He thinks that saved him from a serious injury or worse since a person sitting nearby was ejected through a broken window. Then I saw the parents of a woman passenger interviewed. They said their daughter told them the car rocked, she was thrown against the coach window and then the glass either shattered or fell out. As the coach turned onto it's side she grabbed the overhead luggage rack or she too might've fallen out through the window.

A very violent derailment. Very violent.

beanbag wrote:Has anyone heard from truck or FL9AC? Hope they weren't involved in this incident.

Not involved. Thanks.

pumpers wrote:

Fishrrman wrote:[[ There's no doubt this stretch will be OOS for a while; weeks maybe? So I'm sure they're working on service plans now. ]]

From the recap of the press conference a few posts ago, NTSB expects to be over a week on the site. Could that just mean Track 2 (and 3), and Track 1 could be open for service? Or would they shut the whole thing down? OR is it not possible to know? JS

The NTSB rep in the press conference did acknowledge that MNR is a very busy railroad and that many people will be inconvenienced while this line is OOS. Although I took this as an indirect way of him saying they'll try to get things open ASAP, he did not specifically state whether the RR will be allowed to open the seemingly-untouched track 1 immediately or not. He only said that, once the NTSB collects or documents all "perishable evidence," it will then allow MNR to reopen the line and begin repair work.

He didn't clarify whether this means all tracks will remain closed or if they'll allow track 1 to reopen. But for now, it looks like the total shutdown continues indefinitely until they say otherwise. I would be cautious to avoid speculation on track reopening times/dates and service restoration timelines, as these could be seen by the board mods as being just as unwelcome as speculation on any other aspect of the incident.

I don't think it's been decided but Monday looks iffy for through service being resumed.

“I think it’s fair to say that tomorrow people who use this line should prepare for a long commute or plan on using the Harlem Line,” Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Sunday evening. Link

Track and 3rd rail wise the damage to tracks 2 and 4 is not that bad. Track 1 appears to be unaffected. Like others have said, once NTSB releases the cars and engine, repairs can begin and service should resume shortly there after.