Maine Central Steam Locomotive #470 Discussion

I'm getting the feeling Waterville really has no desire to do anything with this engine, all efforts have gone political instead; each person trying to make themselves look better and forgetting that the main goal is to restore the engine. I too, feel Steamtown is the best option and I'm sure Steamtown would be happy to take on the task.

With all due respect to Steamtown, it would certainly be preferable if this unit could stay in Maine if at all possible. There is very little preserved MEC equipment in this state and it would be nice to fix that deficiency rather than make it worse.

Does the State own it? Perhaps someone should buy it outright. I wonder how much it is worth on the open market!! And yes, it seems odd that the 470 Club isn't active in preserving their namesake...

I believe it is owned by the City of Waterville. Perhaps if the State owned it, it would be in better shape.

The 470 Club is the textbook example of what happens when you do not try and attract new members or make those who do join feel wanted.Same founders etc. wished to run it and keep control;a lot of egos, 'Nuff said,but it is doubtful if many members could perform physical restoration work at their ages. Their 2-8-0 fiasco at the Conway Scenic says much for the group.

To be more heretical,the# 470, as it stands now,MAY be serving a purpose not quickly evident.

I was in the Waterville Yard about 2 weeks ago,and a family,from away were having their lunch by the engine,that they had just bought from a nearby fast food place. Kids really enjoyed playing on/around the engine and the folks thought it was a wonderful piece of history.Dad's comment was ,"Better than that cartoon,Thomas the Tank"!

I never liked liked seeing vintage warplanes displayed to the elements,and incorrectly painted,and "restored",while in the Air Force.Vandalism was not a problem on the bases,and I guess the aircraft did kindle some interest,and appreciation.(Getting vintage one of a kind "warbirds" into the air,is a different,and dangerous topic!)

So,maybe if the 470 was restored cosmetically,like the 0-6-0 steamer is in Lowell,and well maintained by the BMRRHS. It wouldn't be the worse thing on the world.

Don't expect a helluva lot of help from the Waterville politicos. They have never even "developed" the riverfront land when the Wyandotte Mill was torn down years ago.(something is going on there now) Its current location tends to be away from foot traffic in the "inner city" and if the cops and GRS people could be a little more vigilant,vandalism could be cut.

Bud

In their defense, the "470 Club" has been pulled in many directions. I would like to say that though they never stepped forward when first put renovating the 470 before the City of Waterville, they are NOT to be blamed for the status of that locomotive. Perhaps they can be faulted for not bringing the 501 up to operation, and even there, I'd be lenient on criticism, but the City of Waterville has to bear the brunt of this restoration fiasco. Once again, let me say that if the Mayor's office contacts me and allows me to disband the current group, select a competant body of active, informed, steam savvy, personnel, I'll gladly spearhead the project. Participation of the "470 Club" is more than welcomed, but I will get grants out and try to assemble serious money for this project.

The ball is in their court.

Richard, all I know is after reading your Marx Brothers signature, I think I love you...

(DISCLAIMER: No, I am not in love with Richard, I just think it is great someone can still quote an old comedy!)

wolfmom69 wrote:The 470 Club is the textbook example of what happens when you do not try and attract new members or make those who do join feel wanted.Same founders etc. wished to run it and keep control;a lot of egos, 'Nuff said,but it is doubtful if many members could perform physical restoration work at their ages. Their 2-8-0 fiasco at the Conway Scenic says much for the group.

Ok how are they to restore it, if they don't have a place to put it? The 470 Club has been waiting for a stall to open up in N. Conway; reason being is be cause they want to operate the 501 on the Conway Scenic. The 470 Club is also gearing up (so I have been told) to restore the ex-B&M F7 4266 which is still in operation but not in very good standards. I don't know the 470 Club to well there for I'm not going to comment on it, but may I just remind you its only a club, there not obligated to do anything.

Right B&M 1566. I am sorry I forgot about the lack of a stall. The #501 arrived in North Conway on June 9,1984!!!!

Sure they are NOT obligated,and they probably don't have the physical/financial resources to accomplish the task. And my first post points out a major reason for this lack of "energy".

Compare this to the nice job the B&M Historical Society has done with the 0-6-0 in Lowell. It requires a great deal of work,especially in that city. The B&M had its membership,egos,and "control" problems,but they seem to have straightened it out.

Bud

Steamtown is NOT the place to send the 470. The endless work on B&M 3713 with no completion date in sight is a red flag. As someone pointed out, they have not completed one locomotive restoration the entire time they've been in existance. And it's a NPS site, with all that that implies re politics, funding, etc. NO!

The 470 Railroad Club's biggest error is not COMMUNICATING with their members or the railfan community in general. Virtually nothing about the MEC 501 project is ever discussed in their newsletter or on their website. How are people going to support something which is kept under a lid? If they have a plan, let's hear it. If there are problems, let's have an explanation. Basically the 501 has been a 20 year boondoggle. Work done was not up to spec, and will need to be redone. A total waste of time and funds. Who will support them now, after that?

The 470 is the club's namesake locomotive. Have their members even volunteered to paint it at its present location? I'd like to know. Other than the newsletter (a fine piece of work, by the way) all the club seems interested in doing is having an annual banquet and a ride on the Conway Scenic through the Notch.

The 470 locomotive needs a "savior" with a plan... not more neglect or meaningless political "hoopla".

Even though I'm a New england railfan, I'm a big fan of big western mainline steam. SF 3751 and SP 4449 have been saved by groups purchasing the locomotives from their respecitive cities. I don't see why Waterville wouldn't want money for 470. Then if this is accomplished, find some railroad who would be willing to setup space for it in a shop somewhere, then call in Doyle Mccormack of SP 4449 fame and have him look it over.

SP4449, you have a good idea, but obviously you have not seen the 470 in recent years. This locomotive will need new steel in the cab, replacements of most of her steam operative parts, complete backhead rebuild, replacement of fixtures, and plenty of cash. THis is a million dollar rebuild for a locomotive that does not have the cachet of an SP Daylight or Alco PA. She's a gorgeous locomotive, and probably her boiler and running gear are salvageable. Until some millionaire or corporate sponsor comes forward with a burning desire to see her run, a cosmetic restroation and shelter is what should be sought. All we are seeking at this time is preservation. Future generations can operate her one day, but it isn't going to happen in my remaining lifetime unless a miracle occurs. This engine needs a focused organization to seek preservation funding, and not some Quixotic chase.

I failed to mention that I have just visited 470 in the past week. Maybe you're right that its a strech to restore her but at least put it inside somewhere in a museum where yuppies can't complain and force parts to be removed from it.

*

6 months have passed without any further news on this thread.... anything to report or is this going to die like most New England railroad restoration proposals?