Maglev BAL - DC w. Extension to NYC

Ken,

Your statement makes a lot of sense.

We still need some long-distance trains as options for travel that is not as time-sensitive as to require air. But regional air/rail hubs would certainly help a lot.

One of the problems facing air passengers is the fare disparity between feeder lines and major airports. A short-haul flight to a major air hub can cost as much or more than the primary flight out of the hub. For trips of 200-300 miles, it would make sense to use rail to get to the airport.

Les

Desertdweller wrote:Ken,

Your statement makes a lot of sense.

We still need some long-distance trains as options for travel that is not as time-sensitive as to require air. But regional air/rail hubs would certainly help a lot.

One of the problems facing air passengers is the fare disparity between feeder lines and major airports. A short-haul flight to a major air hub can cost as much or more than the primary flight out of the hub. For trips of 200-300 miles, it would make sense to use rail to get to the airport.

Les

I wholeheartedly agree, Les. Minneapolis should be a hub to Duluth, Des Moines, Kansas City, Omaha, Winnipeg, and more, not just a bead on the string from Chicago to the Pacific Northwest. Likewise for Kansas City and the other cities you mentioned prior. As for Ken's statement, that's also a major point - multimodal travel should be a convenient option to maximize the relative strengths of air and rail travel, not just a buzzword unsupported by local transit and widely separated travel hubs.

I can't speak to maglev, but suspect that it isn't enough more efficient than air travel to make a practical investment of a trillion + dollars for a trunk network.

Retitled slightly, and in the news: Baltimore Sun

Brief, fair-use quote per our policy:

Maglev venture opening Baltimore office

An ambitious venture to build a high-speed rail line between Washington and Baltimore — based on an advanced technology that has received rave reviews from Gov. Larry Hogan — will open a new headquarters Monday in downtown Baltimore.

Northeast Maglev, which says the project is the first step toward building a magnetic levitation line extending to New York, calls the opening a milestone in its effort to bring Baltimore and the nation's capital within a 15-minute ride of each other.

...

While the extensive tunneling could avoid the old plans' problems with right of way acquisition and neighborhood opposition, it would also drive up the project's cost. The preliminary estimate for the Washington-Baltimore segment alone has been put at $12 billion.

That price tag could be offset in part by the willingness of the Japanese government and Central Japan Railway to subsidize about half the construction cost of the Washington-Baltimore leg to provide a working showcase of the technology in the United States.

The tunneling idea is fascinating. I'm surprised they aren't also considering elevated guideways along public ROW's.

Jeff Smith wrote:Retitled slightly, and in the news.

The tunneling idea is fascinating. I'm surprised they aren't also considering elevated guideways along public ROW's.

None of the public ROWs are straight enough for the high speeds they wish to operate at.
There are centrifugal forces at work with trains taking turns at higher speeds.

While the 40 miles between D.C. and Baltimore offers a short distance for a demonstrator project, I'm not so sure these two cities would have a high enough urban density to keep the trains full, considering there are two other available trains for passengers to choose from with cheaper fares. Will there be enough time sensitive (businessmen) passengers willing to pay the far higher fares?

If perhaps this type of train is built all the way to NYC, which cities should it stop at? How far apart should the stations be to maximize the time savings of its much higher speeds while also being realistic that it must also maximize the number of potential passengers? 20, 30, 40, 50, or 60 miles apart?

Nonstop Acelas now take 30 minutes to describe an arc over the original Baltimore & Potomac route. It thus appears that it is proposed to spend $12 billion to build a straight line and save 15 minutes. This also makes more acute the problem confronting any proposed high-speed line: Every stop requires deceleration and acceleration, thus reducing the time spent traveling at maximum speed. If a train traveling at 110 makes an intermediate stop, that costs some minutes; if a train traveling at the proposed maglev speed makes a stop it's going to lose a lot more time than that. If a line were built along the Corridor It might (and probably would) be necessary to have some nonstops and some "locals," thus requiring station "tracks" and platforms to enable stopping trains to be overtaken. Is there a maglev line anywhere with workable high-speed turnouts? As to willingness to pay higher fares to get from Washington to Baltimore 15 minutes faster, what if it became necessary to do a "RiverLINE" and charge cheap introductory fares for years on end?

I agree. My problem with this project is that it is connecting two not so big cities that already have rail tavel options.

Could they not find a better city pair for a demonstrator project? What about that LA to LV rail project that gets kicked around every few years? Wouldn't that provide a stronger passenger base to demonstrate the effectiveness of such a system with?

Ideally, of course, it would be two cities with close economic ties. Not knowing too much about economic patterns in this nations, I'm not sure what would be a decent pairing. Maybe some of the Texas city pairs that HSR is being proposed for. Maybe even Philly Pittsburgh since service between the two leaves much to be desired west of Harrisburg. Do it by way of State College and gain a few ten thousands of potential semi regular users.

It does seem if this were to work, it would be better with more distant city pairs. Imagine DC to NY to BOS, where rail is already the majority carrier. That's it; three stops. Of course, a suitable ROW would be awful tough to locate.

Texas seems logical; lots of open space and big cities far apart and that everything is bigger in Texas attitude. Since Semper Fi mentions Pittsburgh, is the PA Turnpike, part of which is along a never used ROW, straight enough?

And, I believe China is investing in XpressWest: XpressWest (former DesertXpress), Vegas - Victorville. As Semper FI points out, that could be a huge market.

Honestly, and this is a personal thing of mine that I just won't let go of...

Use the Maglev to connect EWR to JFK to LGA and to the major business and population centers nearby. Use this high speed interconnectivity to operate all three airports as one, allowing for much greater flexibilty.

I know it will never happen, it's just this thing I won't let go of, but operating the three fields as one, with high speed Maglev service ensuring connectins can be made between said fields in minutes would be a huge boost to mobility and capacity. It would also be an ideal demonstartor for high capacity Maglev-ing as those fields attract millions and millions of passengers a year.

Heck, an additional thought...

Make it a giant circle cnnecting not only Manhattan and the three major airports, but West Chester, Newburgh, and Morristown could be thrown in as well, with massive park-n-ride-n-fly locations sprinkled around wherever the line would cross major Interstate Highways and/or ideal places for massive garages.

Pie in the sky thinking (read unrealistic) from a tax and spender who'd like to see my taxes used for bold projects.

"for most of its route it would travel underground. . . . The preliminary estimate for the Washington-Baltimore segment alone has been put at $12 billion."

The Amtrak Gateway tunnel project from NJ to NYC is currently estimated at a minimum $14 billion. For 2 or three miles. How can a 40 mile line be built for $12?

Ken W2KB wrote:"for most of its route it would travel underground. . . . The preliminary estimate for the Washington-Baltimore segment alone has been put at $12 billion."

The Amtrak Gateway tunnel project from NJ to NYC is currently estimated at a minimum $14 billion. For 2 or three miles. How can a 40 mile line be built for $12?

On paper, before you start serious planning everything is cheap.

SemperFidelis wrote:Honestly, and this is a personal thing of mine that I just won't let go of...

Use the Maglev to connect EWR to JFK to LGA and to the major business and population centers nearby. Use this high speed interconnectivity to operate all three airports as one, allowing for much greater flexibilty.

I know it will never happen, it's just this thing I won't let go of, but operating the three fields as one, with high speed Maglev service ensuring connectins can be made between said fields in minutes would be a huge boost to mobility and capacity. It would also be an ideal demonstartor for high capacity Maglev-ing as those fields attract millions and millions of passengers a year.

Are any two of those airports far enough apart for a maglev train to reach its maximum speed before decelerating for the next station? I would think that for a lot less money (but still an unimaginable amount) you could build a conventional 2-rail system which would have no need to attain maglev speed. Just getting it up and out of traffic would be enough.

I don't know enough about the technical abilities of Maglevs to say one way or the other. The same could probably be said of DC to Baltimore, though. The top speed, above where two rail systems can feasibly operate, is where the time savings occur.

Maybe they should be aiming for longer distance pairs, though the costs would be ridiculous. NY-CHI (900ish miles) or (as a Scrantonian I am required by law to suggest this) Scranton to NY (138 miles?) maybe even, since we're wasting money duplicating effective services, just copy the Water Level NY-ALB-SYR-ROC-BUF. The cities are all within one state and are, thusly, most likely tied together economically. Present service indicates a demand. The old West Shore and other abandoned lines ought to make for easier right of way acquisition.

I know this is far off the DC-BAL topic now, but that plan, one to save 15 minutes of travel, really seems a waste.

Feds now throwing money at the project: Washington Post

Feds award $28 million to study ‘maglev’ train system for Maryland

The U.S. Transportation Department has awarded nearly $28 million to conduct studies on building a high-speed rail line that would carry passengers between Washington and Baltimore in about 15 minutes, according to Maryland officials.

The money will support ­private-sector efforts to bring magnetic-levitation trains to the region as part of a larger vision for building a maglev system along the Northeast Corridor.

Maryland’s Department of Transportation and the state’s Economic Development Corporation applied for the federal funds in April, with an understanding that the Japanese government and Baltimore-Washington Rapid Rail, a private group, would provide significant investments for the project.

Daily Record

The Washington, Baltimore and Annapolis Electric Railroad Co. lives! Brief, fair-use:

Maglev boosters application for passenger rail franchise approved

The Public Service Commission approved the application for Baltimore Washington Rapid Rail to acquire the franchise from the Washington, Baltimore and Annapolis Electric Railroad Co., which was abandoned in 1935.

“We are pleased that the Commission recognized the tremendous benefits of the SCMAGLEV system for greater Baltimore and Maryland. The transfer of this railroad franchise is an exciting first step in making this transformational project a reality,” said Wayne Rogers, chairman of Baltimore Washington Rapid Rail and chairman and CEO of The Northeast Maglev, in a news release. “We look forward to working with Federal, state and local government officials and other stakeholders to move this project forward.”

Baltimore Washington Rapid Rail is pursuing building a maglev line that would cut the 40-mile trip between Washington and Baltimore to 40 minutes. The project is currently expected to cost $10 billion. The Japan Bank for International Cooperation has pledged to subsidize $5 billion in hopes of helping exporting technology from The Central Japan Railway Co.


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