Hudson Secondary

Not knowing the actual route of the line, how come the Hudson Secondary isn't utilized more for NS freight to New Jersy? Seems like it would be a nice short cut to the shard assests area, etc.

Was it any more/less busier during CR times?

I remember seeing this question posted on the old version of these forums. It's a great idea, and recently CSX has done exactly that during trackwork on the River Line, but using the Hudson Secondary as a bypass on a regular basis probably wouldn't work out all that well, for several reasons.

First, the Secondary between Hudson Jct. and Warwick, NY is owned by NS. South of Pelton Road in Warwick the trackage is owned by the NYS&W. On the north end the Secondary ends at Hudson Jct. where it meets the NS/NJT/MN Southern Tier line. Assuming that ownership doesn't change, you would need to have trackage rights agreements set up with NYS&W, NS, and NJT in order to move a train in or out of the NYC metro area. Speaking from hands-on experience I can tell you that any train that wanted to go from Hudson Jct. onto the Southern Tier or from Port Jervis to Hudson Jct. would have to wait until we had a window between the commuter trains. With the increase in trains that NJT is now running out of Port Jervis that window has only shrunk down. It would also be the same for any train waiting to get onto the NYS&W. Increased business from Little Ferry all the way north to Sparta would also probably delay a train more than help it along.

Second, the trackage probably needs to be upgraded somewhat to handle heavier trains than the line currently sees. Yes, NYS&W did do extensive upgrading back in the 80's when it first started running stacks and haulage trains between Binghamton and Little Ferry, and they have kept the line fairly maintained, but I don't know if the line could handle heavy freight trains on a somewhat regular basis. Susquehanna's SU99/100's and locals that currently run on the line are generally short, lightweight trains compared to what NS or CSX would run if the route were used as a bypass.

Anyway, just a railfan's thoughts.

Joe P
Long Live The EL
www.geocities.com/jmpwpd29

Actually, Norfolk Southern upgraded the Hudson Secondary Track in August, 1999. NYS&W was still handling heavy trains during this time. Although they lost trains 257/258, SQ500 series(SEALAND), they still had their own Hanjin stacks 252/268, 259, or the CSX " Bridge Trains " Q100,Q432,ML401,TV18, etc. Currently, only NS local H09 and NYS&W SU99/SU100 run this line(with the occasional detours of CSX run by NYS&W). And most SU99/SU100's are close to 100 cars these days, if not more...

ASD

That's right, the recent Susie-Q trains are fairly long (I get stuck at the crossing in Pompton Lks more often than not). Wasn't aware of the NS upgrade from 1999.

Appreciate the info, thanks.

Joe P
Long Live The EL!
www.geocities.com/jmpwpd29

Are there any grades of interest to see the trains working hard, or is it realitively flat? I am coming from the area of the grades of Washington Hill on the B&A, so....no matter what...its not going to compare I think

For the most part the Secondary is relatively flat since it runs through a broad river valley. You won't see any hard-working freights like you would on the B&A. However if you want to chase and/or photograph the trains, the Secondary is relatively accessible for most of it's length. NY/NJ Rt 94 parallels the tracks between Warwick, NY and Hamburg, NJ and there are plenty of spots to set up for photography. East of Warwick you would need a local street atlas in order to follow the line. Can make for a nice day of trainwatching.

Of course I just realized that I haven't mentioned what trains (and when they run) can be seen on the line. NYS&W runs the SU-99/SU-100 on a nightly basis. SU-99 is the westbound, SU-100 is the eastbound. They are general freight trains that have been averaging at least 50 cars or so per train. They run on alternate nights, and that could be the problem with chasing/photography. If I remember correctly, the NS local that serves the Secondary is the HO-7/8. It comes out of Campbell Hall, NY and works as far south as Warwick, NY. I just don't remember how frequently it works the Secondary. If anyone can post more accurate train information, it would greatly be appreciated.

Well, now that I'm done rambling..........

Joe P
Long Live The EL
www.geocities.com/jmpwpd29

Thanks! I'll be moving to Narrowsburg next month, and the new house is next to the tracks...well, sorta. I would have to run down an ATV trail to get there...with most likely a 800 ft elevation difference

Guess I will also be making more runs to Bear Mountain as well. At least I am at least 3 hrs closer to Altoona and Cumberland from there.