Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, nomis, FL9AC, Jeff Smith

  by Guest
 
I heard they are being retired because of the M-7A's

  by mncommuter
 
... and will there be enough M-7s to replace all the M-1s, when you take into account that most M-7 consists need 2 cars more than an M-1 consist to have an equal amount of seats?

Or even better, will there be extra capacity to maybe add trains to the schedule in the future?

  by Guest
 
there are definately more M-7A's than M-1's

  by 7 Train
 
The M-1s entered service in 1971-73.

  by Otto Vondrak
 
How many are currently in service?

-otto-

  by DutchRailnut
 
190 M7a's in service and MNCR had 178 M1a's, don't know how many are retired.
Currently we are getting a few M7's a month but in September full delivery starts again.
  by Noel Weaver
 
I guess the M-1's ended up being a better car than a lot of us ever thought
they would be. They were a good running car and had good brakes on
them as well.
The thing I hated about them along with most of the other electric cars on
Metro-North were the terrible, broom closet cabs for the engineer.
I personally think the cabs on this stuff were designed by an individual or
a group of individuals who did not like engineers in general.
Noel Weaver
  by Terrapin Station
 
Noel Weaver wrote:I guess the M-1's ended up being a better car than a lot of us ever thought
they would be. They were a good running car and had good brakes on
them as well.
The thing I hated about them along with most of the other electric cars on
Metro-North were the terrible, broom closet cabs for the engineer.
I personally think the cabs on this stuff were designed by an individual or
a group of individuals who did not like engineers in general.
Noel Weaver
A railfan designed it. He made the broom closet as small as possible and the railfan window as large as possible :)

  by ANDY117
 
What route do the M-7a's take to be delivered? are they brought down the tier like NJT's Comet V's? Or does CSX deliver them?

  by DutchRailnut
 
Entire Route is CPrail, Plattsburgh - Saratoga - Poughkeepsie - Croton Harmon.
The MNCR cars arrive on their own wheels, not on flatcars like the LIRR cars.
  by Head-end View
 
Noel: I'll take a couple of guesses as to the reasons for the small cab. When the M-1's were being designed by the "new" MTA in the late 1960's they seemed to be trying to make the NYC Subway cars and the LIRR's (and I guess Penn-Central too) look as similar as possible so the MTA's equipment would have one single modern image to the public. Note that the R42 era subway cars that were delivered about the same time as the M-1's also had the same rounded front, blue horizontal stripe, etc.

I also think the designers (to their credit) set it up with as many passenger seats as possible that could be crammed into the car-body. Remember, at the time the MTA was trying as hard as possible to make the commuter railroads seem more passenger friendly to overcome at least the LIRR's antiquated image, and impress the public.

It's regrettable that the engineer had to settle for second best, during that era. Now in the 21st Century the engineer gets a well deserved roomy, high visibilty cab, and the public gets fewer seats per car.
I guess there are always winners and losers.

So Noel, other than the cab, why did you think the M-1 was not going to be a good car? Did you have other concerns with its design features or mechanical specs?

  by Noel Weaver
 
My earlier days working out of Grand Central were on the M-2's and not
the M-1's but my comments should be applied to both in this case. I did
not work the M-1's until I qualified on the Harlem in 1982.
I felt that there were too many gadgets and the cars were much too
sophisticated for railroad use, too many relays, too many breakers and
too much stuff that could go wrong.
At least from a mechanical standpoint, all of this equipment has stood the
test of time much better than I ever thought it would.
The M-1's in the later Conrail years had a lot of things wrong with them
and they weren't getting any better. Metro-North took over and spent
some money on them and worked them over real well.
Suddenly we would get a train of them and the radio and PA systems
would work as intended, the speed indicators worked again, we could cut
cars from the cab again and not have to call for the wrench, the toilets
were in working order and the sinks actually had water in them and most
importantly the heat in the winter and the AC in the summer were working
again.
Even today, I would think that maybe the Budd built car bodies might still
be fairly decent but the mechanical and electrical systems are probably
pretty well beat up by now.
It was a given that after Metro-North took over direct control in 1983,
all of the equipment was improved and more dependable, even the oldest
stuff still around.
The worst equipment was probably the SPV's which should never have
been designed and built the way they were. So much promise and such a
big failure.
The other cars and there were only four of them on Metro-North were the
GTE cars from the LIRR. The LIRR could not make the things go so they
sent them over to the Harlem and we ran them as best we could. They
seemed to follow me around, I had a job which ran a morning express out
of NWP and we got the four of them every trip. I got off that job for
another job and had them on an evening trip to Mt. Vernon and Fleetwood
most every trip. We could always figure on trouble with them at least
once a week maybe oftener and sometimes it involved a delay as well.
There was not a working radio on any of them, I finally talked the road
foreman at North White to get me a portable. Meantime the 1100's went
through a rebuilding (some of them did anyway) and they got more of
them and more M-1's on the road on a daily basis and after they got this
accomplished, they put those LIRR junkers out of their misery. I was not
sorry to see them go.
As far as working on the cars was concerned, my biggest fault was the
cab, too small and too much glass.
I can't judge the M-7's as I have not even seen one much less ride in one.
I plan to ride the LIRR next month and might catch one on that operation.
Noel Weaver

  by UpperHarlemLine4ever
 
Noel, what were the GTE cars you referred to?? Any photos?

  by mncommuter
 
On an unrelated note, Noel, I just wanted to thank you for all your posts. You always add great historical perspective to this board.