• How did this one slip by this board

  • Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.
Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

Moderators: lensovet, Kaback9, nick11a

  by DutchRailnut
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/08/nyreg ... f=nyregion

Some Criticism of Procedure After Train Cars Disconnect
By VINCENT M. MALLOZZI
Published: March 8, 2008

TRENTON — Cars on a New Jersey Transit train on its way to New York
during the evening rush two weeks ago uncoupled as the train was
leaving the North Elizabeth station, stunning riders and drawing
criticism from the conductors’ union.

Dan Stessel, a spokesman for New Jersey Transit, confirmed the
incident, which occurred on Feb. 22 at 6:04 p.m., on a run that
originated at the Trenton station.

As the engineer powered up the eight-car train and began moving east
about 5 miles an hour, the steel couplers connecting the second and
third cars separated, leaving the cars several feet from each other.

“As soon as the coaches parted, the brakes on all of the cars went
into full application,” Mr. Stessel said on Wednesday. “There were no
injuries.”

After a delay of a little over an hour, the cars were reattached and
the crew was instructed by New Jersey Transit authorities to drop off
all of the passengers at the next stop, Newark Liberty International
Airport.

There were about 600 riders on the train, many left shaken by the
incident.

“When the conductor announced that the train had separated on the
track, there was complete shock on the faces of everyone around me,”
said Rick Smith, a 37-year-old graphics designer from Levittown, Pa.,
who was on the train that night, heading to work in Manhattan.

“If the cars had come apart on a really crowded train heading out of
New York, when many people are standing in the vestibules of the
train, someone could have been hurt,” Mr. Smith said, “or killed.”

Ashley Thorne, 21, the director of communications for the National
Association of Scholars in Princeton, was on her way home to Jersey
City that night, but she did not initially know anything had
happened. “About an hour went by before I finally heard a conductor
whisper to another guy ‘Uh, the train came apart.’ ”

Mrs. Thorne said that “once our train started moving again, a
conductor asked a man riding between cars to return to his seat. The
conductor told him, ‘Trust me, you don’t want to be standing there.’


Mr. Stessel said the accident was not caused by a mechanical or a
human error. A piece of debris, he said, struck the couplers, which
resemble two hands, one below the other and palms face-to-face,
interlocked at the knuckles.

“We were able to identify evidence of debris that struck the train,”
he said, though he could not identify what kind of debris created
enough force to separate the steel couplers.

Patrick F. Reilly, the general chairman of the United Transportation
Union, which represents the 1,100 conductors who work for New Jersey
Transit, said on Thursday, “This could have been a catastrophe if a
passenger was passing through the cars at the time of separation.”

Mr. Reilly also criticized the decision to restart the train with
passengers aboard. He said that the passengers should have
immediately been led off the train, which should have been taken out
of service.

“We were just praying that we got to the next stop in one piece,
without the train coming apart again,” Mr. Smith said. “People
sitting in the back told me they were worried that another train
might hit them from behind.”

Mr. Stessel, who said that the train was traveling at very low speed
that night, added that he believed such a separation was highly
unusual and not likely to happen again.

“This was a rare occurrence,” he said.

  by RS115
 
Hmm - a piece of debris???? How did such a piece of debris a) strike the couplers, apparently while the train was standing still? b) do so in such a way as to cause them to uncouple? c) if it happened while the train was en route to the station why didn't it occur then; couplers under tension so the effect didn't occur till there was slack? I'm still trying to figure out where this debris would have had to hit/lodge.

Anyone know wht type of equipment was involved? I'm assuming Comets or Multi's but anyone know for sure - see what type of cutting levers are involved.

  by sullivan1985
 
What a fun night that was...

  by thebigc
 
RS115 wrote:Hmm - a piece of debris???? How did such a piece of debris a) strike the couplers, apparently while the train was standing still? b) do so in such a way as to cause them to uncouple? c) if it happened while the train was en route to the station why didn't it occur then; couplers under tension so the effect didn't occur till there was slack? I'm still trying to figure out where this debris would have had to hit/lodge.

Anyone know wht type of equipment was involved? I'm assuming Comets or Multi's but anyone know for sure - see what type of cutting levers are involved.
All our Comets have the same style of cut levers.

  by PVRX1
 
Thats interesting. I have had branches "cut" freight cars for me, but this needs a bit more explaining.

  by Jtgshu
 
How did this one slip by this board
Ive noticed lately that you guys are slackin off here and in the NJ Railfan forum! Good thing most of you guys are armchair RR'ers!!! On the RR, you can sneeze in Trenton and they know about it in NY before you get a "Bless You" from the guy standing next to you!!!!!

hahhahahha :)

Like I have said before - things that "can't" and "shouldn't" and "won't" happen happen all the time on the RR............
  by wolfboy8171981
 
DutchRailnut wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/08/nyreg ... f=nyregion

Some Criticism of Procedure After Train Cars Disconnect
By VINCENT M. MALLOZZI
Published: March 8, 2008


After a delay of a little over an hour, the cars were reattached and
the crew was instructed by New Jersey Transit authorities to drop off
all of the passengers at the next stop, Newark Liberty International
Airport.
Since when does it take over an hour to couple two cars together when the train can be no more than 12 cars long. Did they get a knuckle or a just have to make a coupling.

  by DutchRailnut
 
With passenger car separations you just don't slam the stuff together and go.
The incident has to be investigated and documented, cause the FRA is gone ask questions, even a crew trying to recouple, could unintentionally get rid of evidence.

Also if the crew put this train back together, and due to a technical problem the train separates again, the passengers and their lawyers would have a field day.

  by Steve F45
 
speaking of sneaking by. a vehicle was intentionally abandoned on the malcome ave crossing last night and struck by a w/b PVL train, 4018 was lead engine. Women was arrested for DUI and other summons' issued.

  by ryanov
 
I'm starting to wish that they would not interview the man on the street. "We were just hoping to get there in one piece." "We were afraid we'd get hit from the back."

Oh brother.

  by wasKFC
 
Stessel's story is that at 5 mph an unnamed piece of debris struck the train with sufficient force to leave physical evidence of the strike- and cause an uncoupling.

What was this debris? Was it ever found, or does it only exist in theory? Where on the train did it supposedly hit? Were marks (visible on the underside of a train, at night) left by a 5MPH collision between a train and debris? What amount of force, and in what direction(s), is needed to open a cut lever, and how heavy would the debris have to be if the speed of impact was so slow? Could the theory be duplicated in an experiment?

Sure it wasn't a high/low problem? or a failure of the coupling mechanism? or a kid hiding under the platform pulling the cut lever?

:wink: Is that more like it, Dutch Railnut? :wink:

  by PRSL1972
 
It seems to me that someone is not telling the truth. I cant see this happening. I thing transit is lying as usual. Shocker isn't it!!!

  by nick11a
 
Lest we all forget....

This ISN'T the first time this has happened in recent history.

Remember the RVL train about a year back that had the cab car on the hind end de-couple from the train? Yup, and that happened at speed or close to it IIRC somewhere near Somerville on a westbound train.

  by Grump
 
And of course the instant blame was pointed to the engineer. NJT took a statement and was satisfied that the engineer operated with proper train handling, but Amtrak was trying to hang the engineer....

FYI for those of you in the freight world who are unfamiliair with modern passenger equipment, there is an additonal step to operate the cutting lever. You must first PULL up the cut lever perpendicular to the rail before you can rotate it to pull the pin....

  by RiverMP21
 
Strange things like this DO happen on the railroad.

While not related per se to this specific incident, I was working as a conductor on a freight one day, and while going over a dip in the rails, the A&R hoses between the first and second locomotive came undone, and one of the hoses hit the uncoupling lever with enough force to "pull the pin".

Of course, we immediately went into emergency once the two engines came apart, and simple physics will tell you that the lead locomotive, now essentially "light power" came to a stop much quicker than the rear locomotive and the 6000 ton train attached to it did.

We have about two seconds to realize what happened before we were run into, and luckily neither of us were hurt in the incident. When all was said and done, the only damage was to the safety chains between the engines. After filing the necessary documentation with the dispatcher, we were on our way.