Hassled at NHP for WATCHING!

After being hassled at Mineola twice in 2 weeks,I decided to go to New Hyde Park for the Afternoon rush.I did not have my camera wth me as my battery was recharging.I am standing on the platform at NHP for about 1 hour,when to my suprise I am approached by 2 MTA cops.They first ask me if I have a ticket,I did not.They ask me why have been standing on the platform letting 2 tains that made station stops,go without me boarding them.I told them that I was just watching trains.Tey asked me where I live,I told them Queens,they said why dont I stay in Queens.I told them that I have been coming out here since the 1970s,thy both scoffed at that,and told me I was loitering,and that they were going to give me a ticket
I said "go ahead,do what you have to do"The one nastier of the 2 said "who the F--K do you think you are talking to?"I said in a very stern voice,"I am watching the trains,I am not breaking any laws,nor am I impeding any passengers from thier destination,you come along and for no reason decide to harass me for WATCHING the trains,As I just said,if you want to give me a ticket,go ahead"With that,his calmer partner pulled him aside,they spoke for a few minutes,then the calmer one came over to talk to me and told me that they had gotten a call from "a concerned passenger" and he went into the whole 9-11 speil.I told him,that I have been stopped for taking pictures before,and now to be stopped just for watching? He said that some people are nervous and they had to answer the call.
He told me that standing idily on the platform was not a wise thing to do.I said as long as I am not breaking any laws,I can stand on the platform as long as I want.All of a sudden a passenger who I have never seen before blurs out to the cops "Hes a dangerous man,I have seen him here mornings,taking pictures.lock him up" I got very mad and yelled out "Aren't you the individual who I saw 2 months ago making a drug deal by Covert Ave?"
to my suprise he strongly denied being a drug user,and then called me some very nasty names,I just smiled and said "the truth hurts huh?"The 2 cops then asked the guy to leave or else there would be trouble for him.He left,and the 2 cops then asked me if that guy "REALLY" did make a drug deal at Covert Ave,I just told them tht I have seen a lot of things here since my dad started taking me here in the 1970s.They then left me,and I enjoyed the rest of the rush hour.

I love how you handle these things. Also, it's really funny how there is always someone who tries to screw you over, but in turn, helps to save your ass(even though you seemed to be doing well yourself, lol). Well, keep up the good work. I think I'm gonna railfan with you more often. lol.

Yes Keep up the good work.

I have not yet read/herd any thing that the national/state govt. has offically outlawd train watching/photography.

What a sorry state this once-fun hobby has become!

I'm glad I got the photos I did at the time I was taking them, because I surely wouldn't get much now!

In the early 1970s we had the transit helicopters shadowing trains and radioing to cops on the ground who came and chased everyone away. That was the the result of heavy incidences of stone-throwing at moving trains!

I can only shake my head in disgust over this whole hassling thing!!!

As my father used to say years ago . . .Anyone who is spying has already got BETTER photos of their subject than you could possibly hope to get!

Dave Keller

Just to let you know, a lot of crew members on-board are calling these in to the movement Bureau. I actually heard at least 4 calls this week alone. It does suck for all of us who enjoy the hobby photographing trains, but you do have some folks out there who don't mean well. I heard that a few weeks ago a crew noticed a guy entering the information of train times and meets onto his palm pilot. Sounds very weird to me. Unfortunately, it's the sign of the times!

Dave, your mention of helecopters in the seventies brings to mind an incident that happened during that period.
The eastbound freight stopped at Upton Jct/Brookhaven Labs and the conductor told the flagman that he had better do his job while the crew went in to the lab to switch.
Our hero was out, doing his job when a helicoptor hovered overhead and blasted with it's loudspeaker GET OFF THE TRACKS.
This was done several times until our friend decieded that he had better do as he was told---so he went into the hack.
The conductor chewed him out when he found that the train was not being protected---but --hey!!
JJ Earl :D

JJ

That's a terrific anecdote!

A prime example of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing!

Dave Keller

You know, I must be lucky. I've been watching the trains at Farmingdale for months with and without Joe "Emfinite", and we haven't been hassled by anyone, even the MTA & Nassau Cty police and they have seen us. I guess when they see me, they know right away I'm no harm to anyone or thing! Hey what can a fat guy with 2 bad legs do? Don't answer anyone! Even when I go to Jersey and I've been going for about 10 yrs now, the police don't bother me. I stay off the right of way, I don't climb on equipment, stay away and don't bother the train crews. They know me and my vehicle and know I am not a problem. And when asked to move, I do so without any back talk. I'm not saying anyone is doing anything wrong or different, I'm just saying I'm lucky and thankfull. Train watching has been with me since my father took me to watch the LIRR switch the floats in Bay Ridge in the early '60s. You can say it's my one vice in life.

Mike

We have been very lucky, Mike. I guess when something like this happens and a railfan gets hassled even without a camera, its a case of "wrong place, wrong time". Events like this are a rarity, but they seem to be happening a lot more lately, unfortunately. I have been laying low with my photography/video taping and I think I'm going to continue until this all blows over.

Joe

Joe (emfinite),

Your Avatar picture is an FRA defect. :D :D It's not legible. That car could be taken out of service for that! :D :D

Re hassling in the name of security:

During the Republican Convention at MSG, only the 7th Avenue and 34th street entrances to Penn are slated to be open. That means we have to walk an extra block when we leave work, and may miss our going home train. (There's a point to this.)
Someone asked me if I was considering walking the tracks through the tunnel from WSSY to Penn. I would have to think that would be a terrible idea. Can you imagine security dudes in the tunnel with submachine guns see some clown walking the tunnel with a bag in hand?

Re: Arcing Catenary's experience at New Hyde Park. Speaking as a "career trainwatcher" myself, with a strong interest in public safety as well, I can understand the cops' viewpoint. You see, when they receive a call for a "suspicious person" either from a train crew member or the public, they have to respond and try to locate the person, which they did. That's their job. And in this case they proceeded to interview the person, determined that he was not engaged in any illegal or destructive activity, and very importantly, that he was not a potential suicide, waiting to jump in front of the next express train.

It is regrettable if they were antagonistic. But if they haven't gotten to know railfans before, from their point of view a person hanging around the station without a train ticket is cause for concern. BTW if you ever ride the San Diego Trolley in Calif. you'll notice signs on the station platforms stating that the area is resticted to persons with tickets only.

Luckily I haven't had any of "Arc"s kind of bad experiences. Could be that my gray hair and middle-aged appearance attract less attention than a younger person does. I don't exactly know.

I would think that in the current era, it would be better to stick to busier stations like Mineola and maybe Hicksville where you're less likely to be noticed and reported by anyone. You will kind of stand out at a quiet station like N.H. Pk. Although Arc said he was questioned at Mineola too so who knows, really? Also, it's probably not smart to hang around any one location for any length of time. Maybe best to watch a few trains pass, and then move on so as not to attract too much attention to yourself.

Hopefully, as time goes on police agencies will get to know railfans better from these experiences, and may come to consider our activities normal.

The first thing one should remember when in a situation like this is to remain in control of your self at all times. When confronted by a constable, be polite, charming, respectfull, witty, helpfull, basicaly, kiss ass. Keep this in mind: the have the gun AND the badge and the authority to hold you up to 72 hours (maybe more now) with out charges! It's not worth it. Bring a photo album of your work with you to show them. Make them comfortable with you. Who know? maybe the officers will like your work and buy a few prints from you. One never knows. I remember being hassled by MTA cops at St. James one time. These guys were really jacking me up until the station agent came out to defend me. Anyway, a lot of how you are treated is a result of how you treat them.
BTY, I know the enclosed photo is not LIRR, but I took it on my trusty 4X5 Crown Graflex at work one night. The web doesnt do it justice at all.

These times really make me feel glad that there are railroad museums. Photographing trains is exactly what you are supposed to be doing there and as long as you follow a few rules regarding unsafe areas you are more than welcome to rummage around all day long.

I'm lucky in this respect because even though I enjoy any kind of railroading, my tastes run to steam and narrow gauge. I feel bad for anybody who feels like I do about the most modern equipment.

Who knows? Maybe in 30 years when the M7 preservation train goes to RMLI we'll finally be able to photograph them in peace!

I was heading back to my workplace via the AirTrain this afternoon after spending the morning touring the JFK Tower. I decided to snap a few photos when a Bombardier employee over the intercom on the train told me to stop. I left me feeling pretty angry.