Harlem Steam Era Freight

What was the standard steam locomotive for hauling freight on the Harlem Division? When I think Harlem I can only think Passenger Pacific.

My not-too-reliable memory says that freights also were Pacific-powered -- the low-wheeled K-11s.

BaltOhio wrote:My not-too-reliable memory says that freights also were Pacific-powered -- the low-wheeled K-11s.

Thanks for the response, for some reason I thought maybe they had used something a little larger.

From what I understand, Pacifics were the largest engines on the Harlem, with Hudsons making only occasional appearances (sometimes coming off the B&A)...

-otto-

Otto Vondrak wrote:From what I understand, Pacifics were the largest engines on the Harlem, with Hudsons making only occasional appearances (sometimes coming off the B&A)...

-otto-

B&A Hudsons did run between Chatham and NWP, and did so after they were transferred to the NYC roster and renumbered. That may have been a relatively recent operation in the steam era, after some Hudsons were displaced by diesels on the B&A.

Really? Were the Hudsons actually used to move freight?

Not freight -- at least not that I know of. Otto and I are talking about passenger trains in this case. There were several through trains between New York, Pittsfield, and North Adams, MA, and B&A power would sometimes run through.

I consulted Lou Grogan's immortal Harlem Division book and found few photos of steam powered freights. The photos there are all show Pacifics, except for one photo of the east bound (New York bound) "Rut Milk" going through Wassaic --- that photo is at such a distance that I can't determine what the power is. At any rate, it does appear that Pacifics were the normal freight power, as stated earlier.

RE B&A Hudsons, I don't know if it's correct to say that "B&A run-through power was used." That may have been the case, I don't know. It is definitely true that B&A J-2s were reassigned to the Harlem during the last years of steam passenger trains. They were relettered NYC and renumbered 54xx. Grogan's book shows at least some running on Harlem trains before being relettered and renumbered.

The B & A was one of the first parts of the New York Central to be fully
diesel operated occurring in 1951. The former B & A Hudsons were ideal
for the Harlem because they had lower drivers than the other Hudsons for
the grades on the B & A. The Harlem was/is not exactly water level in
any regard and these particular engines were well suited for it.
I suspect that other steam freight power was used on the Harlem whether
any records show anything or not, maybe no records even exist to prove
anything one way or the other.
I will dig out some old timetables when I can and see if they will shed any
light on the subject.
Noel Weaver

Thanks for the replies all. Were the Pacifics used for freight the same as those used for passenger service?

I think the Pacifics were used in all services but it seems to me that
various classes of Mikes were used too. According to timetable no. 69,
dated April 30, 1950 H-5 class steam engines with tanks not heavier than
15,000 gallons were permitted and J class Hudsons with tanks not heavier
than 14,000 gallons were also permitted.
Incidentally, the above timetable shows three round trips of passenger
service between New York and Chatham. There were 24/7 block stations
at Brewster (B) and Chatham (SS-65) and 14 block stations open various
hours between the two end points at this time.
There was a wide variance in the running times of the above passenger
trains on this line, the fastest one on the line was a Sunday evening
train that made the run from Chatham to Grand Central Terminal in three
hours and six minutes while some of the others took up to four hours or
even more. All of the trains had to change engines at North White Plains
and probably they were mostly steam between North White Plains and
Chatham.
It is always interesting to look at old timetables, there is a wealth of
information and history in them.
Noel Weaver

What was done with freight on the Lake Mahopac Branch since Pacifics were not allowed on those rails?

John P. wrote:What was done with freight on the Lake Mahopac Branch since Pacifics were not allowed on those rails?

The Lake Mahopac Branch was pretty short and there probably wasn't
much freight on it if any.
Ten Wheelers were used on both freight and passenger trains on the
Putnam Division and probably on the Lake Mahopac Branch as well.
Noel Weaver

Ten-Wheelers were the rule on the Put... F-12's ran up the Harlem's Lake Mahopac Branch with both freight and passengers trains.

-otto-

Otto Vondrak wrote:Ten-Wheelers were the rule on the Put... F-12's ran up the Harlem's Lake Mahopac Branch with both freight and passengers trains.

-otto-

So the Harlem also used 10 Wheelers for freight and passenger service? Did the 10 Wheelers go all the way to White Plains or were they turned at Brewster and Goldens Bridge?