Hampton Roads/Norfolk/Newport News NE Regional Service

I don't know how running the Super Chief (oops, I meant Southwest Chief) at a profit is "playing train" with real cars, but fear not, if David Gunn will let me run my Super Chief at a profit in place of #s 3 and 4, I am ready to go.

Conrail4014, you don't have to wait for David Gunn to "let you" do this. If you think you can run a daily train between Chicago and LA at a profit, please go ahead. Used passenger cars are available for sale. Private businesses contract with railroads ALL THE TIME to haul unit trains. You can do the same. You'll just be hauling people instead of coal. And if you don't have the money on hand (very rough guess, maybe 50 or 100 million in capital costs) to start this business, get a loan. If you can really make money doing this, put together a business plan and go visit your banker. If he agrees, then off you go!

Please stop with the personal attacks.

The few people who insist on bickering with one another are RUINING this for everyone else. I am NOT the BABYSITTER of this board, and nor will I ever be.

-otto-

Trains 66 and 67 must run in the time slots being vacated by trains 76 and 75-77 because the extension of the overnight Regional service is taking place "out-of-cycle", so-to-speak.

CSX was unwilling to consider rearranging their own trains to accommodate a new schedule through Virginia until the fall/winter timetable negotiation period comes upon us.

Fat noah makes a good point . Here in small town NZ , New york is seen as the place that never sleeps , where people dine at Midnight , and shops are open all hours . Certainly my brief visit there did nothing to dispel that image .

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Lest we forget, "the beast" ate the Southern Crescent during 1983.

Not so - the "beast" ate the Southern Crescent on February 1, 1979.

I believe 1983 was the year the "beast" ate the D&RGW's Rio Grande Zephyr.

Mr. Deasy--

The subject message has been corrected, but so noted in its text.

However, i do not believe the correction warrants a change in my position that the SRY's decision not to join Amtrak during 1971 was based upon "bang for the buck" as I outlined, rather than the "mother lode" of "corporate pride".

That's my point. Southern elected not to join Amtrak. Whether for pride or the cookie jar really doesn't matter--nor does whether the Southern Crescent ran independent of Amtrak for another 8 or 12 years. The fact is, Southern opted out of Amtrak in 1971 and STAYED out for a considerable period after. Just one more stake through the heart of the odd notion of Amtrak as some kind of 800-pound gorilla.

If Amtrak really were the "beast" as railfans allege, then it would have simply TAKEN the Crescent back in May 1971. It would be running trains not only into Phoenix but also over the Joint Line in Colorado. And--to bring this back around--it would also have stood up to the USRA and held out for a much better deal before taking ANY part of the Northeast Corridor.

Matt -
You're shooting at the wrong target. Most railfans realize Amtrak (and passenger service in general) can never make money and exists because the private sector threw in the towel on passenger.

The real problem comes from right-wing ideologues who paint Amtrak as a monopoly and say that all the problems would go away if we allowed free market competitive into passenger rail, i.e. reform or privatize Amtrak. But we all know that the only thing that would go away are passenger trains.

I completely agree. Nice succinct summary!

In a recent post, Wigwagfan identifies the WAS-NPN corridor as one of the bottom three for performance.

Those who live in the area know that I-95 can be a mess along this route and even with the mixing bowl I have a feeling it will suffer the fate of most new roads. Bad traffic puts people on transit, then new road is build, people stop transit and clog up the new road.

So in light of this, what can be done to improve the Tidewater Service?

I think the major issues are getting it faster, getting service to Kings Dominion and improving access to VA Beach and Williamsburg.

Can anyone comment on using this to get to those locations?

gprimr1 wrote:In a recent post, Wigwagfan identifies the WAS-NPN corridor as one of the bottom three for performance.

Those who live in the area know that I-95 can be a mess along this route and even with the mixing bowl I have a feeling it will suffer the fate of most new roads. Bad traffic puts people on transit, then new road is build, people stop transit and clog up the new road.

So in light of this, what can be done to improve the Tidewater Service?

I think the major issues are getting it faster, getting service to Kings Dominion and improving access to VA Beach and Williamsburg.

Can anyone comment on using this to get to those locations?

The only thing that I could think of would be what's in preliminary study, extending Acela and electrified Regional down to Richmond. Acela would run particularly well, considering that the track is relatively straight and there isn't too much traffic, it could easily do it in under 1.5 hours with an average of 125mph.

The problems with Amtrak service between Washington, Richmond, and Newport News are largely the result of two things:

1) The lack of flexibility on RF&P (for example, no crossovers between the Richmond Amtrak station and Doswell, more than 20 miles)

2) Congestion at the CSX Acca Yard, which makes it very difficult for the NPN train to get through.

The first problem is being addressed by track improvements funded by the State of Virginia. Eventually we may end up with a three-track railroad WAS to RVR. In the short run, there will be sections of third track, plus more crossovers.

To avoid the Acca Yard problem, CSX has suggested to the state that Amtrak trains diverge at Doswell onto the former Hanover Sub (C&O) to Richmond Main Street Station (which the state renovated and reopened).

Amtrak isn't sure about this, since the Hanover is not a very fast piece of railroad, but I thinik that with some track repairs and possibly some curve realignment, this could be a good choice for Amtrak.

NellieBly wrote:To avoid the Acca Yard problem, CSX has suggested to the state that Amtrak trains diverge at Doswell onto the former Hanover Sub (C&O) to Richmond Main Street Station (which the state renovated and reopened).

Amtrak isn't sure about this, since the Hanover is not a very fast piece of railroad, but I thinik that with some track repairs and possibly some curve realignment, this could be a good choice for Amtrak.

This is the first time I have heard of this idea, but it is a very interesting suggestion. Unfortunately, Doswell to Richmond Main St Station on the Hanover bypasses both Ashland and Richmond Staples Mill Rd stations.

Ms. Bly, I presume if trains were rerouted on to the C&O at Doswell, I guess Acca (whoops, Staples Mill Rd) would be redundant and could be closed.

For my last jopurney over the route namely NB #52 last March, my Roomette was on the Fireman's side so I cannot recall if that line passes Main St, even though I think the "surviving" line North of Petersburg was the SAL and hence would do so.

Mr. Deasy, would you miss Staples Mill Rd?

Why isn't there service on the NS rail line to Suffolk/Norfolk instead of or in addition to the NN service?

The rail line, which generally parallels US 460, is extremely straight.