• Gunn's future

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

  by RMadisonWI
 
Noel Weaver wrote:I don't think David Gunn is either Republican or Democrat, his home is in
Canada.
He has dual citizenship. I'm positive I heard it mentioned in an interview (either I heard the interview, or I read the transcript of it) that he was a Republican. That same interview also mentioned his middle name. I can't find that transcript online anymore. Anybody know his middle name? Maybe if I can remember that, it might help me find the interview (which was very interesting with or without the mention of his political affiliation).

Update: Searching the message archives of the Yahoo! Group All_Aboard (message 64889 if you're subscribed to the list and are keeping score at home...and by the way, this list has some very good discussion of passenger rail topics by some very knowledgeable people), I found the interview. The transcript is available online here: http://www.mclaughlin.com/library/moo_t ... .asp?id=12

Anyway, the relevant section of the interview
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: ... But first, here is his distinguished profile:
Born: Boston. Sixty-six years of age. Unmarried. Religion: United Church of Canada. Politics: in the U.S, Republican; in Canada, Alliance Party. Harvard University, B.A. and M.B.A. U.S. Naval Reserve, lieutenant J.G., three years. Regional railroad systems: Sante Fe, New York Central, Illinois Central Gulf, nine years altogether. Also, key, if not top, executive at transit authorities including: Massachusetts Bay, New York City, Washington, D.C., Toronto; altogether, 18 years. Amtrak, president and CEO, one year and currently. Hobbies: backpacking, kerosene lamp and antique collecting.
David Lawrence Gunn.

  by Rhinecliff
 
For my part, I must say that I am becoming impatient with Mr. Gunn's performance at Amtrak.

To be sure, I am impressed with his "back-to-the-basics" approach to railroading. This has been a refreshing change from Mr. Warrington's glam era of bizarre adverstising and rebranding. But sooner or later, I expect to see some results, and to date I have not seen much.

The only significant improvement I have seen anywhere is in the dining car menus. Elsewhere, service continues to deteriorate. On my recent trip from New York to Minnesota onboard the Lake Shore Limited and Empire Builder, the equipment was extremely tired out -- to the point of being exhausted. Thus, I am concerned that Mr. Gunn's "state of good repair" initiative is fast becoming just a another Amtrak three-part program that did move not beyond the first part -- announcement.

  by ClubCar
 
In fairness to Mr. Gunn, I do not believe that he is the root cause of Amtraks current problems.

Rather it is the present Congress (both houses) and the current administration that is really to blame.

Forcing Amtrak to turn a profit whil at the same time bailing out airlines shows you just where our current elected officials thinking and prioritites are at.

  by LI Loco
 
The May performance report has yet to be posted on Amtrak's website, and I'm wondering if the shoe is about to drop, i.e. negative numbers. Amtrak didn't make its numbers for April, although it was still up YTD.

My concern is the steep decline in OT performance, which spells higher operating costs and lower revenue.

How much credit or blame Gunn deserves in subject to debate.

  by RMadisonWI
 
Rhinecliff wrote:The only significant improvement I have seen anywhere is in the dining car menus. Elsewhere, service continues to deteriorate. On my recent trip from New York to Minnesota onboard the Lake Shore Limited and Empire Builder, the equipment was extremely tired out -- to the point of being exhausted. Thus, I am concerned that Mr. Gunn's "state of good repair" initiative is fast becoming just a another Amtrak three-part program that did move not beyond the first part -- announcement.
Comparing my experience during a 30-day NA Rail Pass trip December/January 2002/2003 with my more recent experiences, I must say that I have noticed an improvement in the condition of the equipment.

During the rail pass trip, almost every Superliner I car in which I rode had the old orange and red interiors, with pieces falling apart. Recent trips have included some that have been rebuilt. Remember, there are hundreds of Superliners out there, and they can't all be redone at once. The progress I have seen is slow, but steady.

  by John_Perkowski
 
Several comments...

Joe, I don't always use my sigline. Sometimes it just doesn't add value. Today, I will ;) BTW, thanks for the compliment.

To Robert Madison: When the operating subsidy allows for 25 cars a year through rebuild, and the fleet is 500 cars, the rebuild cycle is 20 years. Add into the cycle the fact that serviceable cars are kept in the fleet while the wrecks are being rebuilt, and the cycle is longer.

One of our problems in American business society is to look at results on a quarterly basis. It's just a tad difficult to do what we need to do for the long haul when we're looking three inches beyond the end of our noses.

John

  by AmtrakFan
 
Glen Warmann wrote:Well, Apparently, Its time to fire the Gunn!!! :wink:
He has been the best President that Amtrak has ever had; better than Claytor better than Voucher Boy and Restruip. Hey, better than eveyone combined.

AmtrakFan

  by dwmoore1416
 
I don't think that Gunn has been around long enough to compare with many of the other Amtrak presidents. He has stabilized the system to be sure but Amtrak seems to be on the way to a slow (or maybe fast) shutdown. During Gunn's tenure about all we have seen are cutbacks and downgrades.

Examples: Viewliners in such short supply that many overnight trains don't have any. If they do have a viewliner sleeper then it is not in numbers compared to the way the train ran 10 or 20 years ago.

Superliner cars in short supply.

Cutting diner service between Fort Worth and San Antonio on the Texas Eagle.

Loss of through cars between Boston and Chicago.

You can say that these problems are the result of deferred maintenance from former presidents and they may be. What has Gunn done other than what any competent person would do? It's a no-brainer that maintenance has to be performed. Amtrak has ordered some new switchers but that is not a great idea. Not a bad idea but not great.

Amtrak is such a political creature that the annual appropriations and Congress wield a lot more power and direction over Amtrak than any president would at this time. Gunn may be a good executive but under current operating conditions at Amtrak he has no chance to show it. Saying he is anything other than competent is a stretch.

  by RMadisonWI
 
To be fair to David Gunn, I must point out a few things. Yes, the through cars between Boston and Chicago were lost, but they were restored in May, including sleeper.

It is true that eastern trains are running with 1-3 sleepers today, when they used to run with twice as many. However, Amtrak used to have over 100 heritage sleepers, plus a bunch of slumbercoaches. Those were retired and replaced with 50 Viewliner sleepers. It doesn't take a math major to see that replacing between 100 and 150 (I don't know the exact count) cars with 50 cars is going to result in consist reductions.

The fact that the Viewliners are too few to fully replace the Heritage equipment (all of which was gone before Gunn came on the scene) means that Amtrak has had to run the wheels off of those cars, resulting in a fleet that ran with a desperate lack of maintenance. This culminated with the severe winter problems that Amtrak faced a half year ago, and Amtrak was left with no choice but to reduce consists and cut some sleeper lines.

Also, it is true that performing maintenance is a "no-brainer." However, the fact remains that said maintenance simply wasn't being done before Gunn arrived. Around 100 wrecked Superliners from derailments dating back to the mid 1990s languished at Beech Grove, while periodic maintenance and equipment overhauls on the rest of the fleet was stopped almost completely. Perhaps this means that previous Amtrak presidents had no brains, maybe not. But, whatever the case, Gunn is doing far more to rebuild the system than the past two or three presidents did.

Cutting sleeper lines may seem like a bad thing, but it's better to not sell tickets for the car in the first place, than to sell tickets and then have to explain to frustrated, angry, and tired passengers that the sleeping car they expected to board was bad-ordered, or wasn't even on the train to begin with because there wasn't enough equipment to go around. Certainly, there is still too much of the latter, but the effects have definitely been reduced by Gunn's no-nonsense approach, which is to not pretend that there's going to be enough equipment to go around when there isn't.

Don't forget, too, that the Twilight Shoreliner and Palmetto lost their sleepers (the former only briefly) before Gunn took over. Since May 15, 2002, one route was discontinued (Kentucky Cardinal, which carried around 20 or so passengers per day, 10 per trip, to J-ville and L-ville), and two were truncated (the Pennsylvanian, which had similarly dismal ridership numbers west of Pittsburgh; and the International, which is funded by the state of Michigan, who requested the change).

True, there have been some on board service reductions during Gunn's watch, such as the loss of complimentary sodas in the sleepers, the loss of dining car service on the Eagle south of Fort Worth, and even starting in the last week or two, or so I'm told, the fact that "a la mode" on desserts, and even cheese on the burgers, are no longer complimentary to sleeping car passengers. I have mixed opinions about the Eagle's diner, and find the other two examples to be just cheap (i.e. I don't think they're really going to save all that much money, while reducing some of the perks for their highest paying passengers).

I wasn't able to ride Amtrak very much under George Warrington (whose administration also implemented the one-menu-fits-all dining car policy, which was partially reversed under the Gunn), so I personally can't testify whether customer service has improved or gotten worse since then, but others I have talked to say that they haven't really noticed much of a difference one way or the other. You still have your good apples, your bad apples, and your "I'm doing it because it pays the bills" folks working there.

So, in summation, I guess we really can't say that Gunn has been anything more than competent in running Amtrak. But that, in my opinion, says more about how bad the previous presidents were than anything else.

  by JoeG
 
Amtrak has been so starved for cash for so long that we can't judge Gunn's performance on the basis of what passenger amenities he provides. Remember, he is running the railroad having gotten several hundred million less than what he said was the minimun he needed. He is forced to spend money on infrastructure that is invisible to riders. He is also forced to pay charges on Warrington's disatrous financing.
I'd be curious to know how Gunn's infrastructure rehab compares to Claytor's. I have the suspicion that Claytor neglected infrastructure, but I have no facts.
For those members who think Amtrak should provide more goodies to passengers, you need to say what will be given up to pay for them. (I agree that taking away free drinks from sleeping car passengers seems chintzy, but I don't have to run a broke, deteriorating railroad. How many soda cans equal a pandrol clip?)
  by Noel Weaver
 
As most of you know, I am a Gunn supporter.
I believe most of the leaders before him neglected to take care of many
important maintenance items and Gunn inherited a "mess".
Having inherited a "mess", I think Gunn has done the things that had to be
done the best way he could. Bridges, track, signals and overhead wires
don't always look as nice as new upholstry and new floors, curtains etc but
let me assure you, the infrastruture is far more important than the nice
things. Finally, someone at Amtrak (Gunn) realizes that and is doing
something about it.
David Gunn may well be the best leader that Amtrak has had, EVER.
Noel Weaver
  by Robert Paniagua
 
This is what Mr. Weaver wrote:As most of you know, I am a Gunn supporter.
I believe most of the leaders before him neglected to take care of many
important maintenance items and Gunn inherited a "mess".
Having inherited a "mess", I think Gunn has done the things that had to be
done the best way he could. Bridges, track, signals and overhead wires
don't always look as nice as new upholstry and new floors, curtains etc but
let me assure you, the infrastruture is far more important than the nice
things. Finally, someone at Amtrak (Gunn) realizes that and is doing
something about it.
David Gunn may well be the best leader that Amtrak has had, EVER.
Noel Weaver
That's right, I totally agree with you. He's just trying to turn around a company that has had a bad wrap, but I'm also positive that Gunn will do a decent job in running the ship.

  by hsr_fan
 
Mr. Gunn has come up with a sound plan and I think he's done a good job identifying the requirements to reach the "state of good repair". But I have to wonder if the execution is lacking. Why are things getting worse instead of better? Why is there a sudden shortage of equipment when the wreck rebuild program should be resulting in more cars out on the road? Why are single level coaches suddenly being used on Superliner trains to cover a coach shortage?

I'm certainly discouraged by some of the reports of poor service, rude employees, and lack of pride in operations. Take the Coast Starlight, for example. I've read reports of coach passengers on overcrowded trains being put in the Sightseer lounge (obviously precluding its intended use as a lounge), the Parlour car is often missing (I don't think sleeper passengers receive any sort of refund when the Parlour car isn't provided), and the elimination of some of the perks for sleeper passengers, such as complimentary beverages, is disappointing. And when I read about petty things like no longer including cheese on burgers, or deserts, with the (very high) sleeper fares, it seems things are going downhill fast.

And I think some of the operations decisions are questionable. Does running with a single locomotive on the Texas Eagle and City of New Orleans really save enough to justify limiting the train to 7 or 8 cars? Reports are that sleeper space on the Eagle routinely sells out, coach is typically crowded as well, and the demand exists for additional cars. Running with two locos would allow for longer consists (assuming more Superliners could be made available), and would improve reliability. Redundancy is a good thing, especially when road failures are not uncommon for Amtrak's diesels! Why is it that Amtrak can afford to run two P42's on the three car Heartland Flyer, but not on the Texas Eagle?

I've also wondered about Amtrak's poor utilization of New York's refurbished Turboliners. Why do the RTL III trainsets spend most of their time collecting dust, when they could be covering more runs, freeing up more Amfleet equipment for use elsewhere?

I certainly don't understand the conversion of the Cardinal from a Superliner train to a single level train. If Superliners are in somewhat short supply, then Viewliners are in extremely short supply! 50 Viewliner sleepers (and 25 or so Heritage diners) is nowhere near enough to adequately cover the eastern long distance trains. The Silver Palm is no more, downgraded to the coach only Palmetto. The Three Rivers is a single sleeper, no diner operation, and recently the Cardinal has been as well. (Note that running the Cardinal with even a single Superliner sleeper would result in an increase of sleeper capacity!) The Twilight Shoreliner/Federal is no more. The Silver Star, Silver Meteor, Crescent, and Lakeshore Limited all routinely sell out their sleeper space. Clearly, the Viewliner fleet is stretched too thin.

I also wonder about Mr. Gunn's vision for the future. He has made a number of disparaging remarks about the Acela Express, Amtrak's only modern, European-style high speed train. The train does have faults, to be sure, and certainly the equipment has not been as reliable as it should be. But nonetheless, it is arguably Amtrak's premiere service, and represents the future of passenger rail in this country, if there is going to be a meaningful future. Among my non-railfan friends, most know of the Acela Express, many have ridden aboard it (usually on business), and I've heard many favorable comments about it. It's the one Amtrak train that people associate with speed and comfort, and with the type of service they experience in Europe, as opposed to the widely held perception of Amtrak trains as a sort of "Greyhound on rails".

Just a few thoughts...flame away!

  by JoeG
 
HSR--
Your questions about consists on the Cardinal and power assignments are valid. I recall those being discussed on the earlier RRNET, but I don't remember the substance. However, I tend to give Gunn the benefit of the doubt. There have been all kinds of issues and disputes with the NY Turboliners. I'd like to know what's happening with them now.
The Acelas are extremely unreliable and are expensive to maintain. They are not true high speed trains. I wouldn't compare them to European trains. I do agree that they are nice to ride in.
Don't forget that the lengthened trip times caused by freight congestion and freight railroads' mistreatment of Amtrak increase equipment needs. Gunn doesn't have enough money to work on all the damaged cars, and the whole fleet is aging.
Crew morale and rudeness, etc--Gunn is a competent manager, not a magician. Amtrak has always had a certain proportion of rude crew members. Their morale must only get worse, given the long train delays and the fact that Amtrak hasn't been able to give them raises for several years.

  by hsr_fan
 
JoeG wrote:The Acelas are extremely unreliable and are expensive to maintain. They are not true high speed trains. I wouldn't compare them to European trains. I do agree that they are nice to ride in.
Well, I would argue that with a top revenue speed of 150 mph (241 km/hr), the trains themselves are certainly high speed trains by just about any definition. Whether or not the service qualifies as a high speed service, given the average speeds between endpoints, is debatable.

I would also argue that the trains can be compared to European trains, as the Acela is basically a European design, and even shares a few components with the TGV. It's just a lot heavier! In terms of the experience from a passenger's perspective, cruising aboard the Acela at 135 or 150 mph feels very similar to riding aboard the German ICE 3 at up to 186 mph. At least, it seemed so to me.