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I've read numerous articles in NYDN on this over the last few years. They want 2 things as far as I can tell. 1. Start substantial repairs to the existing Hudson tunnels now, same way TA did their tunnels. If it it worked for TA, it ought to work for Amtrak. 2. They believe that the Portal bridges are going to be built as expensively as possible short of gold plating them, that the plans are to spend like 10 times as much as needed. Now I'm not an engineer, but if they are right, this is sucking up BILLIONS beyond what is needed. Add that to the fancy and expensive plans for Penn South and many BILLIONS will get wasted. I'd ask railroads like BNSF and UP how they would do Portal - their record of doing major projects at a reasonable cost suggests they might find ways to do it well and in an economical manner.

Beyond that, someone needs to put a stop to the Cuomo Hochul real estate grab around Penn, including not tearing down historic buildings, building office towers that no one needs, displacing services for the homeless. Concentrate on doing upgrades and repairs that are needed. Eliminate plans meant for pocket lining.

Rehab the existing tunnels first, let's see if Gov Hochul goes for it.

Dcell wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:23 pm Rehab the existing tunnels first, let's see if Gov Hochul goes for it.

Not likely. The whole point of Gateway is to have two tunnels (and therefore two tracks) for the Northeast Corridor while the existing two tunnels are rehabbed. One couldn't begin to imagine the horrors of a single tracked bottleneck anywhere on the precious Northeast Corridor (for Amtrak and NJT).

Waiting for several years while the new 2 track tunnel is built is like playing with explosives. A very bad idea. Repairs are needed now. The new tunnel is needed to increase capacity. 2 tracks now is just not enough.

I agree on reducing construction cost. Goodness we don't need 20 consulting companies and 40 studies. It has been done. Time to build stop with the studies and consulting firms.
I hope they don't any more tracks to Penn Station because that would be most stupid plan they could do. I really wish we can build without delays on this project but I expect quite a few.

LIRR and Amtrak have 4 tracks to Long Island and the Hellgate Bridge. Amtrak and NJT have only 2 tracks to New Jersey. They really need 2 more tracks. And they need to replace Portal Bridge - but it seems beyond excessive for that to take around $4billion. NYDN believes that the Portal replacement and doubling should cost far less.

Have the new Gateway tunnels really gone past the last hurtle? has every piece of real estate been acquired? As I understand it is very easy to use eminent domain in NJ. But still some Nimby might try to muck up the process. Are all pieces in place in NY?

Also, temporary easements and any underground or air rights?

west point wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:07 am Have the new Gateway tunnels really gone past the last hurtle? has every piece of real estate been acquired? As I understand it is very easy to use eminent domain in NJ. But still some Nimby might try to muck up the process. Are all pieces in place in NY?
Also, temporary easements and any underground or air rights?

You missed a huge word in the title of this thread; Gateway clears it's last FEDERAL approval.
Getting the money together, buying all the property and air rights, easements, are all State and City approvals.

I believe the FTA and it’s rating program only has sway over transit projects (projects that have to meet the definition of transit). Passenger rail programs can be funded by either FTA transit funding or intercity funding under PRIIA- with the latter managed by DOT and FRA rather than DOT and FTA. Commuter rail services have to meet the definition of transit in order to qualify for said funding and intercity passenger rail funding has different rules and different definitions. A lot of the funding in IIJA seems tied to Amtrak and intercity pax rail in general which I don’t think is in the jurisdiction of FTA. Gateway is a project that qualifies for both as it serves an intercity passenger railroad and a commuter railroad that receives transit funding- so presumably NJT is going after transit funding while Amtrak is going after FRA managed funding. What I’m not 100% sure of is if the intended funding scheme in the bill is that the Amtrak and interstate intercity partnership grants are meant to cover all of gateway (with NJ and NY applying for grants thru the program) or if the intention is to split it between that pool and other transit/commuter rail portions of the IIJA since Gateway kind of spans both. If the tunnels still need transit funding than I suppose I see why the FTA rating remains an issue.

The FTA raised Gateway’s project rating, clearing it for Federal funding.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/article ... ings-boost

https://www.northjersey.com/story/news ... 598352001/

The financing plan for Gateway’s first phase requests nearly $5.5 billion in federal funds, about 44% of the total project cost. Amtrak committed nearly $1.3 billion, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey will chip in $2.1 billion, and the remaining $3.35 billion would be split using state funds from New York and New Jersey.

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Pensyfan19 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:28 pm

Dcell wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:23 pm Rehab the existing tunnels first, let's see if Gov Hochul goes for it.

One couldn't begin to imagine the horrors of a single tracked bottleneck anywhere on the precious Northeast Corridor (for Amtrak and NJT).

It's called the weekend

But yes, get on with it. The sooner the better. Budgets are absurd, bue we are who are - and try to deliver under budget for once. I have a little, little more faith in Hochul than Cuomo and the parade of 'jobs for the boys' crooks prior.

Biden’s proposed budget includes $100M for Gateway Tunnel

https://www.nj.com/politics/2022/03/bid ... unnel.html

$100M?

Uh, enough to dig as much as was under Gov. Christie's ARC fiasco?

Or maybe now only enough to feed the Consultants.

Hopefully better designed than the train to Macy's Cellar.

Since it's integral reporting here:

Groundbreaking today on the Portal North Bridge.