From the Sept. 2005 Planning Doc

Did anyone notice this? Why plans for here but not Newtown?

Quakertown-Stony Creek Rail Restoration
This project would restore passenger rail service between Upper Bucks County and North Penn
communities with Center City Philadelphia via Lansdale, and with the King of Prussia area via the
Stony Creek Line. A feasibility study has been completed. The Bucks County Transportation
Management Association was awarded $15,000 from the Pennsylvania Department of Community
and Economic Development to prepare a business plan for the restoration of commuter rail service
on the Quakertown/Stony Creek line. A consultant will conduct this work. The business plan
development is expected to be completed in late Fall 2005.

Where is this Stoney Creek Line?

Where is this Stoney Creek Line?

Norristown to Lansdale.

I'm surprised Quakertown is moving forward this fast! Anyone know what type of service they are considering (electric, diesel, LRT, ect.).

I remember a few years ago Arlen Specter getting involved in getting funding for this. Unfortunately for Newtown, this project is probablly more vital. Newtown is lacking alot of things that really will prevent it from coming back. For one, Stony Creek is still an active line. ROW is intact, rails used by CSX, etc. Newtown has nothing, no stations, no usable ROW, no place to park cars, etc.

At least something is geting done.

As stated, the fact that the Stony Creek and Bethlehem branches are still active rail lines gives a major head start over restoring Newtown service, as much as I'd like to see that. With slot parlors planned for Bethlehem, this would also be a logical first step toward serving a stronger ridership base and an eventual restoration into the Lehigh Valley (as long as they can get their heads out of their arse and stop planting grass in Bethlehem). Being that the Schuykill Valley metro also still has a breath of life, a faster connection (i.e. not through Center City) between it and the North Penn / Upper Bucks / Lehigh Valley area would not be a bad thing.

I agree passenger service to Bethlehem would be a good thing. Hopefully, there the powers that be won't drop the ball on this one.

This route is moving ahead faster than Newtown because both Bucks and Montgomery counties are prioritizing it ahead of Newtown.

Conventional commuter rail was the only mode that came out of the feasibility study--since CSX has to operate freight on these lines, it's the only feasible mode. Straight diesel to 30th St. lower level and dual-mode diesel/electric service were found to be fairly close in cost, though I don't know if that accounted for the latest FRA and EPA regs which will make a dual-mode locomotive more of a technical challenge. I would assume full electrification would also be considered if the project goes to the TIS stage.

TIS Stage? How many damn stages does this thing have to go through??!? Just run it! Bad enough we talk about it for 25 years, now that its been decided to do it, we have to study it beyond the wazoo. No wonder nothing gets done in this country anymore...

jfrey40535 wrote:TIS Stage? How many damn stages does this thing have to go through??!? Just run it! Bad enough we talk about it for 25 years, now that its been decided to do it, we have to study it beyond the wazoo. No wonder nothing gets done in this country anymore...

There are two studies that are needed for a project of this scale that is going to use federal capital grants: a preliminary feasibility study (which is the one that was carried out for Quakertown/Stony Creek a few years ago) and a transportation investment study (formerly known as a major investment study).

The TIS (see Schuylkill Valley for example) is a much more detailed study encompassing technical feasibility and financial planning as well as selecting the mode and alignment. There are requirements for a no-build or transportation systems management alternatives to be considered, and there usually is an environmental impact study done as part of the process.

Both phases are necessary because a TIS is not cheap (especially if SEPTA does it). The preliminary study can help prioritize projects, and gives planners a ballpark figure on cost, completion time, and benefits, so they can set out a timeline to do various projects. You might have two viable projects in a given region, but if they're rather costly, you would probably need to space them farther apart in time than you would if they were inexpensive.

This is a pie-in-the-sky thought, but it would be nice if this project moves forward as a diesel operated service, that enough rolling stock be ordered to cover "eventual" restoration of a similar Newtown service.

Now back to your reguarly scheduled program....

jfrey40535 wrote:This is a pie-in-the-sky thought, but it would be nice if this project moves forward as a diesel operated service, that enough rolling stock be ordered to cover "eventual" restoration of a similar Newtown service.

You're right, and that points out the big shortcoming of this kind of project-centered planning. You can't capture the synergistic benefits--you have to assume each plan is done independently. So while you and I know that breaching the 'no diesels' wall at SEPTA would make subsequet expansions of rail service much cheaper and easier, the planning process doesn't know it: it assumes that 2 plus 2 equals 4 when in fact 2 plus 2 equals 3 when there are common resources in the two projects.

jfrey40535 wrote:This is a pie-in-the-sky thought, but it would be nice if this project moves forward as a diesel operated service, that enough rolling stock be ordered to cover "eventual" restoration of a similar Newtown service.

Now back to your reguarly scheduled program....

Well, they already have a few dozen push-pull coaches that are being deemed surplus in a few years. What a coincidence!

And having been used on several fantrips in the past, they already know their way around the Bethlehem branch.