Fox 29 Investigation

On Thursday the 10PM news on FOX 29 will be investigating a SEPTA engineer who read while he was operating a train.

Can't wait to see that BS.

Is it a new one ?....Because i know they did one i think late last year.

flynnt wrote:On Thursday the 10PM news on FOX 29 will be investigating a SEPTA engineer who read while he was operating a train.

Believe me, this extremely dangerous practice occurs regularly on a freight railroad that I won't/can't mention!

I've seen operators on the 15 doing that too. As far as I'm concerned, it's their butt if something goes wrong.

I heard about that, too. Apparently the tape was inconclusive as to what that particular engineer was reading, or at least thats the rumor I heard. For all we know, it could have been a bulletin order. Sadly, its true that some engineers do let there eyes gaze on the print of paper (newspaper that is) rather than the railroad.

I don't know the rules for RR employees, but the one thing that did catch my eye (or ear in this case), was a engineer talking on his cell phone while operating. Not the end of the world, but I was railfanning at Forrest Hills, and this outbound train only gave 2 quick toots (and they were very quick toots) of the horn while crossing the grade to minimize the sound disruption to his phone call. Then again, SEPTA engineers always seemed to be light on the horn.

I agree with you Jfrey, and as a matter of fact SEPTA prohibits the use of cell phones while operating a MOVING locomotive, and they are beginning to really crack down on it. Amtrak is already doing so. As a matter of fact, railroads can subpoena one's cellphone records if there is some sort of accident (derailment, fatality, signal violation, etc.) to see if the times of cell phone calls coincide with the incident. We're only permitted to use them when the locomotive radio is defective and/or we just can't get the dispatcher with it. The NORAC rule book does allow for a secondary means of communication if the radio fails, and the cell phone has come in handy on numerous occasions.
SEPTA engineers, including myself, are generally light on the horns because those Silverliner head-ends are not sound proof, as opposed to the AEM-7 which isn't that bad on the ear by comparison. You can really hear that horn on the lead end. I only lay on the horn for crossings I know are relatively busy (like on both sides of the R-3 and a few on the Norristown line). Sometimes the time of day might be a factor. Also, the crossings where cars are notorious for driving around the crossing gates (for instance Indian Queen Lane on the Norristown line), or when approaching a crossing at slow speeds due to some speed restriction or slow signal indication, its a good idea to really blow.
As for the '2 toots' that engineer gave at Byberry Rd., if a supervisor or an FRA man were in the vicinity or on his equipment, he may have face some punitive action for noncompliance. The rule book explicitly states two longs a short and a long on the horn for public grade crossings and areas where there are maintenance of way workers along the right-of-way.

I live not too far from Roslyn Station and the Easton/Susquehanna crossing can be a bear despite the presence of traffic lights along with the crossing signals (unfortunately we've had a couple fatals there). While I sometimes hear truncated warnings, most of the guys give it the full LLSL and quite demonstrably at times. They also used to give a couple toots for "CP GARDEN" which was just north of the crossing. Time of day doesn't seem to matter, in fact the B745 crew really likes to say 'hi' some nights. LOL!

glennk419 wrote:I live not too far from Roslyn Station and the Easton/Susquehanna crossing can be a bear despite the presence of traffic lights along with the crossing signals (unfortunately we've had a couple fatals there). While I sometimes hear truncated warnings, most of the guys give it the full LLSL and quite demonstrably at times. They also used to give a couple toots for "CP GARDEN" which was just north of the crossing. Time of day doesn't seem to matter, in fact the B745 crew really likes to say 'hi' some nights. LOL!

And particularly going southbound into Roslyn station, you really should lay on the horn because the train is coming out of a curve lined with trees and houses. I operate to Warminster frequently, and there have been a few fatalities there and also at Willow Grove. You are right, time of day doesn't matter under those circumstances, and I would definitely consider Easton and Susquehanna a busy intersection, coupled with the fact that there are no gates. About three years ago, I was approaching Roslyn heading southbound, came out of the curve and there was a car sitting in the gauge. I had to put it into emergency to avoid what would have been a fatal collision for the driver of that car. Why he was in the middle of the intersection I have no idea, all the traffic lights were at stop.

whovian wrote:

glennk419 wrote:I live not too far from Roslyn Station and the Easton/Susquehanna crossing can be a bear despite the presence of traffic lights along with the crossing signals (unfortunately we've had a couple fatals there). While I sometimes hear truncated warnings, most of the guys give it the full LLSL and quite demonstrably at times. They also used to give a couple toots for "CP GARDEN" which was just north of the crossing. Time of day doesn't seem to matter, in fact the B745 crew really likes to say 'hi' some nights. LOL!

And particularly going southbound into Roslyn station, you really should lay on the horn because the train is coming out of a curve lined with trees and houses. I operate to Warminster frequently, and there have been a few fatalities there and also at Willow Grove. You are right, time of day doesn't matter under those circumstances, and I would definitely consider Easton and Susquehanna a busy intersection, coupled with the fact that there are no gates. About three years ago, I was approaching Roslyn heading southbound, came out of the curve and there was a car sitting in the gauge. I had to put it into emergency to avoid what would have been a fatal collision for the driver of that car. Why he was in the middle of the intersection I have no idea, all the traffic lights were at stop.

I go through that intersection all the time and often encounter a train. You would be amazed at how oblivious some of the drivers are ( OR NOT! ) and that doesn't even include the idiots who deliberately run the lights. You also mentioned gates...a year or more ago there was a story regarding installation of gates at that crossing but that obviously has never happened. Have you heard any word on that?

glennk419 wrote:You also mentioned gates...a year or more ago there was a story regarding installation of gates at that crossing but that obviously has never happened. Have you heard any word on that?

I wasn't aware of any such project, and it seems to me it would be rather impractical.

For those of you who haven't been there, this is a three-way intersection between two main roads (Easton Rd. and Susquehanna Rd.) and the railroad, which is single-track here. So there are four roads into the crossing, and you have to gate all of them. Because of the size of the crossing, the gates would be rather far back from the crossing, and there would often be cars in the intersection, waiting to turn left, when the gates go down. Though the gates are configured not to trap autos on the crossing, I would expect that if gates were installed, some drivers might incorrectly perceive they are trapped, and will either freeze and get whacked by the train, or do something else equally stupid.

Anyone know of any other crossings of this type which are gated?

whovian wrote:I agree with you Jfrey, and as a matter of fact SEPTA prohibits the use of cell phones while operating a MOVING locomotive, and they are beginning to really crack down on it. Amtrak is already doing so. As a matter of fact, railroads can subpoena one's cellphone records if there is some sort of accident (derailment, fatality, signal violation, etc.) to see if the times of cell phone calls coincide with the incident. We're only permitted to use them when the locomotive radio is defective and/or we just can't get the dispatcher with it. The NORAC rule book does allow for a secondary means of communication if the radio fails, and the cell phone has come in handy on numerous occasions.
SEPTA engineers, including myself, are generally light on the horns because those Silverliner head-ends are not sound proof, as opposed to the AEM-7 which isn't that bad on the ear by comparison. You can really hear that horn on the lead end. I only lay on the horn for crossings I know are relatively busy (like on both sides of the R-3 and a few on the Norristown line). Sometimes the time of day might be a factor. Also, the crossings where cars are notorious for driving around the crossing gates (for instance Indian Queen Lane on the Norristown line), or when approaching a crossing at slow speeds due to some speed restriction or slow signal indication, its a good idea to really blow.
As for the '2 toots' that engineer gave at Byberry Rd., if a supervisor or an FRA man were in the vicinity or on his equipment, he may have face some punitive action for noncompliance. The rule book explicitly states two longs a short and a long on the horn for public grade crossings and areas where there are maintenance of way workers along the right-of-way.

Doesn't SEPTA provide their engineers with hearing protection?

jfrey40535 wrote:I don't know the rules for RR employees, but the one thing that did catch my eye (or ear in this case), was a engineer talking on his cell phone while operating. Not the end of the world, but I was railfanning at Forrest Hills, and this outbound train only gave 2 quick toots (and they were very quick toots) of the horn while crossing the grade to minimize the sound disruption to his phone call. Then again, SEPTA engineers always seemed to be light on the horn.

That's nothing! I was over at Woodbourne on Saturday (which I might add turned out to be extremely boring), and witnessed a Northbound train roll up to the station and stop as usual. After getting the signal to procede, he just eased right out and crossed the road with absolutely no horn at all.

Even though northbound trains stop quite close to the road already, the other Northbound train I saw that day still managed to get out a full Two Longs a Short and a Long in that small distance.

Also, Whovian, have you noticed that there a few AEM-7s and Cab Cars out there now with an odd sounding horn? I have a video I shot of a Cab Car on one of the R3 evening expresses with what I thought was a bad/squealling bell. But then this morning I head over to Woodbourne and catch AEM-7 2301 heading down with a horn that sounded almost identical (of which I also have video documentation). I figured one was just a bad horn bell, but two exactly alike seemed odd. Have they been retrofitting differant horns on those things? It sounded like the engineer was laying on the horn pretty good but it was also no where as near as loud as the AEM-7 horns I remember from the good ol' days.

Joe

Rundriver: the answer to your question is yes, SEPTA does provide hearing protection in the form of little foam earplugs which are more irritating than helpful.

Wagz: The answer to your question is I don't know of any retrofit regarding horns on SEPTA's AEM-7's or Cab Cars. In all honesty, I haven't run bombers in quite some time. I try to stay away from them.