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  • F40PH's in freight serice?

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Discussion of Electro-Motive locomotive products and technology, past and present. Official web site can be found here: http://www.emdiesels.com/.

Moderator: GOLDEN-ARM

 #724141  by mrconductor55
 
Hi everyone,
While in my local hobby shop today, I noticed an H0 Scale train set that included an F40PH in Union Pacific colors, and a few freight cars. I know this is just a children's toy, but it made me wonder. First I knew that some railway in maine rebuilt a bunch of F40's and put em in freight service. Does anyone else have any pictures, or just know of F40ph's being pressed into freight service? Besides regearing, would anything else need to be done to make the unit more appropriate for freight service(mechanically). I'm sure in a pinch you could just couple an F40 geared for 100mph to a freight train, and it would pull it, but its still basically just a GP40. I think it would be really cool to model

Frank
 #724198  by DutchRailnut
 
Any freight unit used for other than just road haul needs 4 corner stairways, so a plain F40phi won't do for FRA regulations.
The railroad in Maine had a few locomotives modified with stairways on front (rear already had stairs).

See: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 27&nseq=16
 #724206  by MEC407
 
Canadian American Railroad (CDAC), the Maine railroad referenced above, added a door to the nose of the locomotive and added a front porch with steps. They also added a larger fuel tank, did some electrical upgrades, and changed the gearing from passenger to freight. The rebuilt units were called F40M-2F.

Spec sheets for these locomotives can be viewed at:

http://railworld-inc.com/forms/F40M-2F-Front.pdf (page 1)

and

http://railworld-inc.com/forms/F40M-2F-Back.pdf (page 2)
 #727898  by NV290
 
DutchRailnut wrote:Any freight unit used for other than just road haul needs 4 corner stairways, so a plain F40phi won't do for FRA regulations.
Not exactly. Actual stairs are not a requirement. CN and CP Rail have hundreds of loco's with ladders at the four corners with only a bottom "step". They use ladders instead of steps because of the snow. Guilford has many ex CN units running around with these ladders as well.

The big issue is you need a place to stand and ride at all 4 corners. The platform allows the employee the ability to rest their arms and ride longer distances. An F40 has ladders on the two front corners for switching moves, but no platform to stand on. An F40 also lacks a nose door, making it a nightmare for road or yard use as you have to stop the locomotive in order to go to the next unit or to get on the leading end for switching. And the final reason F40's make poor freight loco's is the same problem with all hood units, no rear visibility. They are worthless for switching and road work running long hood forward. So even the F40's that have a front door and a front steps added are still not popular.
 #727917  by DutchRailnut
 
The FRA begs to differ, and CN and CP locomotives may not be legal in USA.
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2007/ ... 231.30.htm

The FRA manual even shows exactly how those stairs should look.

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2007/ ... 231.30.pdf
see Plate A on page 568
 #727926  by Jtgshu
 
mrconductor55 wrote:Hi everyone,
While in my local hobby shop today, I noticed an H0 Scale train set that included an F40PH in Union Pacific colors, and a few freight cars. I know this is just a children's toy, but it made me wonder. First I knew that some railway in maine rebuilt a bunch of F40's and put em in freight service. Does anyone else have any pictures, or just know of F40ph's being pressed into freight service? Besides regearing, would anything else need to be done to make the unit more appropriate for freight service(mechanically). I'm sure in a pinch you could just couple an F40 geared for 100mph to a freight train, and it would pull it, but its still basically just a GP40. I think it would be really cool to model

Frank
Well don't forget that CSX does have 4 I believe former Amtrak F40s painted in CSX colors for their offical train, so while I don't think they would be seen on a freight any time soon, they could be!

I remember one of my old HO models being a BN F40 :)
 #727927  by DutchRailnut
 
They could only be used as road freight units (with no switching involved)
 #727937  by NV290
 
DutchRailnut wrote:The FRA begs to differ, and CN and CP locomotives may not be legal in USA.
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2007/ ... 231.30.htm

The FRA manual even shows exactly how those stairs should look.

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2007/ ... 231.30.pdf
see Plate A on page 568

No argument here. That is what it says.

As we both know, Federal Laws are complex. But i find it hard to believe that their are literally hundreds of locomoties running around the US on CP, CN and Pan Am with these ladders and the FRA does not know about it. They HAVE to know about them. I have been boarded by an FRA Haz Mat inspector while on a CP SD40 with these steps. So the idea that for years "Illegal" locomotives are running around seems a bit far fetched?. Based on the fines for a willfull violation, these railroads would own MILLIONS in fines.

One could guess that maybe because they are Canadian units that their is some sort of waiver they have. But if so, how can we explain railroads like PAR using them? Unless it's a grandfathered in type of issue?

Ill have to ask the next time i see one of the FRA guys floating around....
 #727955  by DutchRailnut
 
as long as their in road serviece and no switching is done, everything is kosher.
 #727975  by MEC407
 
PAR does use the GP40-2Ws for switching (although I'm sure the switch crews would prefer a straight GP40). There are several other railroads in the U.S. that have ex-CN GP40-2Ws as well, including KCS.
 #727997  by DutchRailnut
 
and the GP40-2W has 4 corner stairways as per FRA requirements, NV290 is refereing to SD-40 cowl units
 #728000  by NV290
 
DutchRailnut wrote:and the GP40-2W has 4 corner stairways as per FRA requirements, NV290 is refereing to SD-40 cowl units
No, they have ladders at each corner, not steps. Its a large platform at the bottom and then a ladder. It's a ladder with steps wider then grab irons, but they are by no means like typical locomotive steps.

I am talking about SD40's and GP40's, not cowl units. PAR is using them in road and switching service.
 #728007  by DutchRailnut
 
Looks like a FRA mandated stairway to me ??
Am I missing something ? it looks exactly like the diagram in FRA manual as linked above.
but were diverting from F40's
 #728013  by NV290
 
DutchRailnut wrote:Looks like a FRA mandated stairway to me ??
Am I missing something ? it looks exactly like the diagram in FRA manual as linked above.
but were diverting from F40's
It's a ladder. It is completley vertical. Maybe the picture does not show it well.