Erie RR trackage in Waverly, NY

I am considering modeling the Erie in Waverly NY and am in desparate need of a accurate trackage plan of the area circa 1955.

I hope someone can be of service on this problem.

Thanks!

Someone call Scottychaos!

I'm modeling the area in the modern day. Have fun with yuor layout.

no problem!
Here is a CURRENT Waverly trackplan I drew up for Andy:

http://gold.mylargescale.com/Scottychao ... ckplan.gif

as for 1955, thats a bit of a challenge, but im sure we can figure it out..
the historic topo-map collection on-line has a 1954 map!
but..the scale is too small for fine detail.

http://historical.maptech.com/getImage. ... g&state=NY

the basic layout is well-known..but variations in the side-tracks happened over the years..
I will take a look through my book collection and see what I can come up with for the 1950's..A bunch of the Morningside books have great pics of Waverly...I have them all at home (im at work as I type this..)

The modern Waverly map above has all the major tracks...although there were some there earlier that arent there now.
such as sidings that occupied the current parking lot between the mainline tracks and the back of the downtown buildings..just east of Fulton street.
it should all be fairly simple to work out with photos..
I will gather all the photographic evidence I can, and draw a 1950's map similar to the modern map.

meanwhile, if anyone has any Waverly pics from the 50's please post them here!

are you going to model the DL&W too?
and how much of Waverly do you want to model?
just the area around Fulton street? or out to the industries along Broad St. extension as well?

here are the pics I have handy right now:

Probably 1940's
train is traveling eastbound.
east of Fulton street, photographer is on the north side of the tracks, near the firestation. fulton street crossing is in the right-center of the photo:





1972
Just west of Fulton street, looking East.
this trackage arrangement probably isnt much changed from the 50's.


Here is the DL&W waverly station:


Here is one of my pics from the 80's


from the Pennsylvania ave bridge, looking West.
fulton street crossing in the background, Leprinos in the distance on the left of the tracks.

The five tracks in the foreground are still there today, and were likely all there in the 50's as well.
from L-R they are:
Line into Sayre
Waverly siding.
Eastbound main
Westbound main
spur to industry on Broad st.

The tracks missing in the 1980's (and today) that would have been there in the 1950's are two short "yard" tracks occupying the dirt parking lot between the tracks and the back of the Broad st. business district.
im not sure of the switch arrangement there..will need some good photos for that. they probably came off the mainline somewhere between the Fire station and PA ave bridge, and dead-ended at Fulton st.
Also, there was at least one, and probably two, more tracks on the south side of the tracks, leading into the area that is now Leprinos..

Fun!
I love projects like this..

Scot

huh..I just noticed something interesting that I wasnt quite aware of!
in this photo:



the location of the two switches in the foreground have MOVED between 1984 and today!

in my 1984 photo, the switch connecting the Sayre track to the siding (on the left, south side of the mainline),
and the switch off the main to the Broad st industries,
(on the right/north side of the photo)
both were to the West of the PA ave bridge.
(the bridge the photo was taken from)

today, both switches are to the EAST of the bridge!
they moved..
and the switch to the siding is now off of the mainline, not the Sayre line.

well..it was interesting to me!

Andy, the 2005 map is correct..I thought I had made it wrong based on the 1984 photo..but it is actually correct for the current track arrangement.

Scot

Thank you Scot for all the help you have given me and look forward to anything else you can post to help me in this endeavor.

I will be modeling from the old Elmira Street bridges ( and there have just dummy DL&W tracks) all the way east past the mills to Ellis Creek...I grew up near Emory Chapel and walked both ROWs many times but never realy studied the Waverly yards at the time in the late 1950s.

I live just three blocks from the Murray trestle in S. Waverly near what would have been the Warren Street overpass....strange world, isn't it??

And you the first to provide evidence of the DL&W interchange location with the LVRR....took a walk to check it out just after I discovered this forum.

Thanks for the help!

Stephen,
welcome to the forum!
good to have you aboard..

a Waverly native huh?
me too!

Born in Sayre in 1969,
grew up in Waverly..
spent most of the 80's (my teen years) along the tracks in Waverly and at the museum in Sayre.

Left for college in '87 and havent live in the Valley since..
although always nearby..Albany, Corning, and now im up in Rochester, but my parents are still in Waverly, so im down there fairly often.

Did you go to Waverly highschool in the 50's?
My Dad graduated from Waverly in '59, Dick Lawrence.
and his brother Dave, my Uncle, in '61.

I went through my books tonight and got a TON of detailed trackplan info from the 1950's! I will draw it up and post it over the next few days..

One book in particular is an absolute goldmine,
"Trackside around Sayre-Towanda-Waverly, with Lloyd Hall"
by Morningside Books.
fabulous!
if you dont have it, you NEED it!
Great train pics from Sayre, Towanda, Waverly and Elmira from about 1951 to the early 60's..
based on that book alone, I was able to work out a very detailed trackplan for 1955..probably 95% accurate.

Did you ever visit the Sayre museum in the 80's?
that was the first museum in the Sayre station, from about 1985-1991.
We had a great HO scale model railroad in the station, Had Waverly, Sayre and Athens on it, 1950's timeframe.
We had both the Erie and the DL&W running through Waverly and South Waverly..
Sadly, the layout had to be demolished in the early 90's when the museum was booted out..

the new group, the Sayre Historical Society, is currently building a new museum in the Sayre station..

Scot

Stephen,
could you do me a favor?
you could you check a few street signs?!

the current bridge over the tracks..I have been calling it the "Pennsylvania ave bridge"..not sure where I got that..
thats just what I have always called it...but PAave probably isnt very accurate for that bridge.

and! calling it the PAave bridge creates a conflict with my maps...because the *original* Pennsylvania ave bridge was not in the same location as the current bridge.
the original bridge connected the actual PAave in Waverly with the actual PAave in S. waverly..the new bridge is further to the East.

so, for clarity, I would like to re-label the current bridge with a better name.
so you could please check the street signs and see what that road is actually called?
the on-line maps dont help..
im seeing Howard st, Keystone ave, and Bradford st for the bridge over the tracks in NY..

Calling it Keystone ave makes no sense to me..
because that would make it Keystone ave over the tracks in NY, then shift briefly to Bradford st., then *back* to the real Keystone ave in Sayre..weird..

I believe the road in NY (over the tracks) and the same road in PA (over route 17) have different names..im pretty sure its Bradford st. in PA..
its the NY side, the actual bridge over the tracks, that im concerned about.

right now "Bradford st bridge" is making the most sense to me..
but what do the signs actually say?
I marked with red dots the street sign corners I would like to check..

thanks!
Scot

Hi Scot!
I graduated from Waverly in 1968 and have been employed as a social studies teacher at Athens High since 1976.
I don't recall meeting any members of your family along the way...and I never did visit the museum during that time period as I had lost interest in railroads while living in a series of apartments...no room for a layout!

I finally got back into the swing of things in 2002...the bug bit and I have been

collecting Erie, DL&W, and LV engines and rolling stock from the 1950s era trying to recreate my own childhood watching those trains go by!

As far as the street names are concerned I walk that bridge EVERY day and still don't know the real name of it....all us local yokels call it the 199 overpass.....but I shall check on the street names for you....I am certain the ones you have marked in red are what you have them as...with the 911 business around here they are changing street names for ease of location for ambulance dispatch...as you know PA ave wanders serpentine like all the way up from Athens....only a local can find their way around this Valley.....I wish I had a dollar for every poor soul I have directed to the Guthrie Clinic or to the four lane so they could get out of here!

Thanks for your help and pleased to meet you!

Steve

Hi Scot!
Well, your map with the names of the streets is pretty much correct with a few exceptions.
I had to call S. Waverly Boro, Waverly town hall and final got a partial answer from the EMS service: The two bridges are generally called the Howard Street bridges,even though Howard Street goes East as you have it on the map. N. Keystone Ave. is were you have it marked as Bradford street and Keystone apparently "ends" at the state line and the north bridge is considered Howard St. in NY....weird!
Erie street is OK east of the bridges, but going west towards Yanuzzi's Restaurant it is now called.....Yanuzzi Drive! Not too confusing around here!

Thanks Stephen!
interesting..
ok, I can deal with "Howard St. bridge"..that makes sense to me.

yeah, that map I got on-line is a mess..
I actually fixed a bunch of roads that were wrong before I posted it!
they were showing several streets that have been gone since route 17 came through..actually, there were so many I missed one!
notice that remnant labeled "Bradford st" that sticks off of Penn ave right at the John H. Murray coal trestle!

im working on some maps...I will post them soon!

Scot

Stephen,
Here is what I have so far..

http://gold.mylargescale.com/Scottychao ... index.html

thanks for posting your question about 1955!
your question led directly to this new webpage..
I have always wanted to work out these trackplans,
now I have a good excuse!

Scot

Scot,
It is a wonderful map! A really big help in all kinds of ways!

The "mystery" track crossing Loder I think may have been a spur up to a lumber company where today DeFrahn Studios sits....I have been told the track went up at a steep incline and over the little creek on a wooden bridge....I have been to the spot where the creek now goes under Leprino and right next to the mainline bridges one can see the remains of what was once a "trestle" for that spur line.

As to the East of town one of the spurs rose up (I assume the northern most spur) to Broad Street level and crossed the street just east of Lefty's and there was a switchback to service the large factory at the Spalding St. corner now used by NY Muscle and Rynone Industries...the track and spur into the factory are gone but the ghosts in the pavement remain.

Back to Loder for a moment....Waverly Creamery sat on the south side of the track where Leprinos sits today....and like Leprinos half in NY and half in PA...two checkout lines: you went through the NY checkout to buy beer because you could not sell/beer from a store ( an still can't) in Pa.
There was a stripe in the parking lot (west side of building) to designate what state you were parked in....don't cross with beer or you could be arrested.

I will work on uncovering info on the East end of the Waverly complex...do you have the trackage for the mills east of town?

This is fun!
Thanks!
Steve

Just remembered that one of the two spurs heading east not only crossed Broad st. to a switchback spur but that the factory complex once had a walkway over Broad St. to connect the two large buildings...I believe it was removed in the 1970's.

I also took Scotty's tours and have fond memories of the walking bridge over the Sayre yards.....many a cold night I would walk down and stand there watching the men service the diesels at the sandhouse and watch the night switching action. One could keep warm on a below zero night by standing over the fans of the diesels underneath. I often saw the D&H Sharks and the PAs also when they delivered to the Sayre yards. The graffiti on the walking bridge was the best ever anywhere!

Steve,
I will add all your info to the map!
I can continously update the drawing with new buildings (such as the creamery)

I very vaguely remember the creamery..I recall getting ice cream there as a kid in the 70's..but I dont remember much about it.

I remember the tracks across Broad st. in the area of Lefty's..if we can find a decent map or photo, those tracks can be added in too..

That trestle up to "Defrans" is new info for me!
That track shows up in one photo (page 88 of "Trackside around S-T-W with Lloyd Hall")
I dont recall ever seeing any trestle evidence in that creek!
of course, I was never looking for it either..since i didnt know of its existance until a few minutes ago..
based on that one photo, it appers the track must have run *between* the two Erie station and the Snyder Hotel!?
could that be right? it doesnt seem like there would be enough room..
and I havent noticed any pics that show a track crossing Fulton st. at that location..it remains a mystery for now.

I dont have any good info the track arrangement for the Broad St. Extension mills..I have the modern trackplan, but we have the benefit of excellent modern aerial photos to work those out:

http://local.live.com/?v=2&sp=aN.r00dmy ... pushpin___


sadly, we dont have the same resources for 1955.
The new Sayre Historical Society in the Sayre station has virtually the entire collection of the first Valley Railroad Museum from the 80's..
probably somewhere in that collection are some good photos..

Do you know Frank Evans?
He runs/owns the Sayre Hobby Shop on Keystone ave.
Frank is THE authority on Valley railroad history!
Im sure if you talked to him, he could help a lot with this "quest for a trackplan"..

great stuff!
lets keep at it!

Scot

STOP IT!!!! You guys are making me homesick!!!!

I was born in Sayre in 1964. My father was the late Joe Pica, DJ/announcer at WATS-AM from its inception to his untimely death just before I was born. My mom's family is the Walter family. My Uncle Jack Walter has been involved Athens Twp. government since the 50's. There are still a lot of us Walters in Sayre and Athens, not sure about any Pica's who are left.

Anyway, enough of family rambling. How could you not grow up in Sayre, Athens, or Waverly and NOT be influenced by trains? Unfortunately I feel that I was born at least 10 years too late in regard to my interest in railroading around Sayre. The LV did put on a heck of a show right up til the end, though. Conrail didn't do too bad either, but Sayre is just a ghost of it's former railroad glory now.

With the excellent links and diagrams posted here you've got me thinking about redoing my N-scale layout to reflect home........

Thanks,
Joe P.