Electric Power between Harrisburg and Philadelphia

AmtrakFan - that's why I mentioned the following in my post regarding Superliners east of Harrisburg:

"Yes, some logistics to work out with platforming east of Harrisburg, but a thought."

Keep in mind also, when the Heritage fleet was being discontinued, Amtrak considered using Superliners on the Broadway route and terminating it in 30th St. Philadelphia. The idea faded quickly - in favor rather of discontinuance. The discussion came up again when Amtrak started hauling freight on what became the Three Rivers and Pennyslyvanian (to Chicago). My recollection with the proposed Skyline Connection (Philly to Chicago), however, was that it was intended to use Viewliners right from initial discussions. The Skyline Connection never made it out of the starting gates - in the era of Amtrak's M&E grand plans.

Jersey_Mike wrote:

Amtrak really hates running electrics on the HBG line. Part of the reason is that they would have to do some work figuring out how to split the electric bill with SEPTA.

...How do NJT and SEPTA split the bill now when they run on the Amtrak NEC? Was the PHL-HBG catenary ever severed from the NEC? PHL-HBG was an integral part of the entire PRR system electrification; in fact, I believe that part of PHL-HBG was electrified before the rest of the NEC. In any event, the PHL-HBG electrification is so interconnected with the NEC that I would think that it would have been very difficult to separate the systems.

PRRTechFan wrote:...in fact, I believe that part of PHL-HBG was electrified before the rest of the NEC.

This is a true statement. You can still see the early form of catenary poles (round instead of I-beam) on the Main Line west of Philadelphia.

The electrical propulsion system is divided up into segments, each of which can be turned on or off from the control center, I believe.

Is it true that some portions of the Mainline derive some of its power from the old PRR lehigh valley branch (SEPTA's Cynwyd line)? I thought I read something about that somewhere. Even though there have been no trains west of Ivy Ridge since the 70's, all of the overhead is still intact. I'm not sure what happens past Norristown...perhaps it connects with the Trenton Cutoff?

jfrey40535 wrote:Is it true that some portions of the Mainline derive some of its power from the old PRR lehigh valley branch (SEPTA's Cynwyd line)? I thought I read something about that somewhere. Even though there have been no trains west of Ivy Ridge since the 70's, all of the overhead is still intact. I'm not sure what happens past Norristown...perhaps it connects with the Trenton Cutoff?

Yes, that is true.

The wires along the SEPTA Cynwyd line (from Zoo), across the Manayunk Bridge, past Ivy Ridge, and up on the abandoned PRR Norristown Line (now a bike path) to the Trenton Cut-off (NS Dale Secondary) are still active. These are 132kV Amtrak transmission lines that feed the wayside, step-down substations.

These two lines originate at the Safe Harbor Dam on the Susquehanna. The dam has dedicated 25 cycle turbines that supply a portion of the NEC power. They come east toward Norristown on the Trenton Cut-off to Ernst (the intersection with the old PRR Norristown Line) and then head down to Manayunk on the old PRR right-of-way. The lines heading east on the Trenton Cut Off from Ernst were sold several years ago and have in many areas been removed. Amtrak ceded them to Conrail and Conrail sold them. Amtrak now wishes they had them back.

Despite the dilapidated appearance and the use of dormant rights-of-way, these lines are crucial parts of the Amtrak NEC power grid. The hydro power is dirt cheap and is the prefered bulk supply. A tree related tripping of these lines last year resulted in a severe power shortage on the NEC all the way to New York and was the incentive for a major tree clearing project that was a source of surprise and irritatation to the lines well-to-do neighbors in the western Philadelphia burbs. These folks always assumed that since the lines looked dead they were dead. They were wrong.

PRR60 is absolutely correct. The lines above the abandoned PRR ROW along the Schuylkill River, now part of the Valley Forge bike trail from Norristown to Manayunk, are very much alive. If you drive under them on I-476 with your car radio tuned to AM, you will actually pick up hum from the wires. Along the ex-Trenton cutoff, wires have been restrung from Fort Washington east but these lines belong to PECO and serve substations in Willow Grove and Bucks County.

too bad we can't get the rails back under those wires...

jp1822 wrote:I also agree that the E60s should have held been held on for Harrisburg all electric service. One E60 was nearly completly through a refurbishment plan when the memo came to discontinue work and scrap'em (I believe this is the one that went to Strausburg RR). The E60s were rampant for breaking down in their last years of service, but supposedly a refurbishment plan was proposed to help make them more reliable for service and some re-gearig for faster.

That is really surprising to me. I thought that Gunn wanted to refurbish as muich as possible instead of spending more on new equipment. Did the scrapping 'memo' come from Gunn?

Can't refurbish the E60s in this current FRA climate...that would have entailed structural rebuilding in order to put in the Tier I (at least) crashworthiness (given the year that they were built, I assume that they would not pass). There would also be some issues regarding ability to switch voltages "on-the-fly" in case the need arose to deploy them on trips up to Boston MA...I would say that Gunn would prefer to have an electric motor that wasn't restricted as to where it could go in electrified territory. And as for their trucks—if they could have put in a set of C-C trucks (GE does have those self-steering ones) that you could have them running at 125 mph without hunting, then I'd say it would have been worth it to rebuild them...

can someone please show the fra the door?

Wait for me...

nobody will show FRA the door just like we don't show the door to FAA, IRS, INS, OSHA, DOT, etc.
The railroads agree to rules set forth by FRA, cause they know they need them.
Other than railfans who would like to see different trains, nobody minds the FRA rules cause they are the only safety rules the railroads and unions have to keep each other in check.

Or is it just that the freight RR's like the FRA rules regarding passenger crash worthiness because they want to make it as hard as possible for a revivial of service in this country??

The only RR's that should have any say about passenger crash worthiness standards are the RR's that run regular passenger trains under their own name. Commuter operations of course can be included as such.

Perhaps there should be different sets of standards for different speeds?? This would allow sharing of tracks coming into a city and its station, but allow for dedicated high speed corridors to built outside of and between cities - very similar to what was done in France with the TGV.

Getting back on topic, I just heard that the segment of track between PARK and STATE is being de-energized for the next year and a half while trackwork is completed. I guess they got fed up having to pussyfoot around the live-wire with the booms and cranes involved in rehabilitating the track.

Let's pray that hoodlums don't steal the wire while the juice is off. HBG power dispatcher will be on duty to manage power between PARK and MP 21. I guess we won't get to see a SEPTA ALP run a Thanksgiving keystone out there this year.

There are no crash worthyness standards, only crush strenght of frame and collision post.
it determines how a frame is to be built and at which strenght.