Dropped Stops

I've taken a look at some of the older timetables from Via's site on archive.org. (http://web.archive.org/web/199806111001 ... index.html)

It seems like there were a few towns that were dropped from serviced altogether along current routes today.

Canadian
Brandon North (MB)
Transcona (MB)
Amesdale (ON)

Northlander
Oriole (ON)

The Pas-Pukatawagan Train
Stops North of Pukatawagan
Lynn Lake (MB)

Corridor / Océan
Lévis (QC)
Prescott (ON)
Maxville (ON)
Watford (ON)

Anyone know why?

labaienordique wrote:I've taken a look at some of the older timetables from Via's site on archive.org.
It seems like there were a few towns that were dropped from serviced altogether along current routes today.

Corridor / Océan
Lévis (QC)

Anyone know why?

The tracks through Levis have been abandoned. The Ocean (and former Chaleur) now use the freight line through Joffre Yard between West Jct. and St. Charles. Charny is now the stop on the south shore for Quebec City with a shuttle bus downtown to Gare de Palais.

The reason behind most of the other stops being discontinued is that there were simply not enough passengers using them. In the case of some, like Transcona, there's a bit more to it than that.

The reason for ONR dropping the Oriole stop on the Northlander route was not because of lack of passenger demand: it was because of the difficulty in handling passenger pick-up for the northbound journey when the train was cancelled and replaced by bus. The bus could not get direct access to Oriole station (because of the highway above it), and could get access only as far as the turn-off from Leslie Street. And there were a lot of cancellations in those days! Hence, it was far easier to abandon the Oriole stop.

Thanks for the clarification Brian. I could not figure out why there is such a gap between serviced communities (between Washago & Union Station). Richmond Hill for example might be a great location to add for both the Northlander & Via's Canadian given the size of that city.

Given that the GO Train services only Richmond Hill southbound to Toronto in the morning (vice-versa in the evening), it would just be a natural extension & opportunity for both the Northlander & Canadian to offer Northerners & the local residents to off-peak train service.

Northbound service

NORTHLANDER
08:40 - Union
09:25 - Richmond Hill (approx.)

CANADIAN
22:00 - Union
22:45 - Richmond Hill (approx.)

Southbound service

NORTHLANDER
18:30 - Richmond Hill (approx.)
19:15 - Union

CANADIAN
08:45 - Richmond Hill (approx.)
09:30 - Union

There is all kinds of interchangeable service/connections with Via Rail & GO Transit trains along the 401 corrdior (Brampton, Georgetown, Aldershot, Oakville, Guildwood & Oshawa), I don't see why this wouldn't be practical for trains en route vers Northern Ontario. Seems like a pain in the rear having to go all the way to Union & then North again.

Also, you wouldn't happen to know why does the Northlander not serve some of the smaller towns along the 11 corridor? I've been on some Via Trains that stop in the middle of nowhere (the Sudbury-White River service for example), so I don't understand why the Northlander bypasses many of the smaller towns.

There are a bunch of smaller towns that I'm sure would welcome the train service (considering the train already passes through these communities).

Novar
Emsdale
Burk's Falls
Sundridge
Trout Creek
Powassan
Derland (Callander)
Earlton
Ramore

Just seems like a wasted opportunity to extend this service to some of these smaller places.

labaienordique wrote: "Corridor / Océan
Lévis (QC)
Prescott (ON)
Maxville (ON)
Watford (ON)"

I remember when VIA did stop in Prescott. It had got to the point there was only one train in each direction that stopped there every day. I think only half a dozen people ever got on there, and most days it wasn't more than 2 or 3 people. Most people taking the train anywhere in the area just went to Brockville anyway. Yet strangely, once VIA announced they were dropping the stop, there was a huge outcry from the public in town. If only all those people objected to the train not stopping there had actually used it, it might not have been dropped as a stop.

NS VIA FAN wrote: The tracks through Levis have been abandoned. The Ocean (and former Chaleur) now use the freight line through Joffre Yard.........

This was the view over to Quebec City (and the CPR's Chateau Frontenac Hotel) from Levis. You could board a ferry adjacent to the station to take you across the St. Lawrence River.

I think I can provide some answers here.
Transcona is a suburb of Winnipeg, and I doubt VIA saw the point of serving a stop a half hour drive from Union station, which has a large staff and ability to handle baggage. As well The Canadian is serviced in Winnipeg for several hours, much longer that in this schedule. Now if one could get on #1 at Transcona at about 07:40, would would then have to get off and wait until 11:30 (VIA does provide suggestions of stuff to do, but it's understandably aimed at people from outside of Winnipeg).

The Pas - Lynn Lake mixed train was cut to Puk. a few years ago by HBR because the closure of the mine in Lynn Lake and resulting loss of freight traffic made it uneconomical. Most of that line was sold to local first nations who like HBR saw no reason to serve the dying town of Lynn Lake.

bitf wrote:I think I can provide some answers here.
Transcona is a suburb of Winnipeg, and I doubt VIA saw the point of serving a stop a half hour drive from Union station, which has a large staff and ability to handle baggage. As well The Canadian is serviced in Winnipeg for several hours, much longer that in this schedule. Now if one could get on #1 at Transcona at about 07:40, would would then have to get off and wait until 11:30 (VIA does provide suggestions of stuff to do, but it's understandably aimed at people from outside of Winnipeg).

The Pas - Lynn Lake mixed train was cut to Puk. a few years ago by HBR because the closure of the mine in Lynn Lake and resulting loss of freight traffic made it uneconomical. Most of that line was sold to local first nations who like HBR saw no reason to serve the dying town of Lynn Lake.

If Transcona is a large enough "suburb" of Winnipeg it could be beneficial for the Canadian to make a "flagstop" there, as then people wouldn't have to travel all the way into Winnipeg via car, find/pay for parking, and then board the train. Sometimes Winnipeg is not the best city to get around in!

...Also, you wouldn't happen to know why does the Northlander not serve some of the smaller towns along the 11 corridor? I've been on some Via Trains that stop in the middle of nowhere (the Sudbury-White River service for example), so I don't understand why the Northlander bypasses many of the smaller towns.

There are a bunch of smaller towns that I'm sure would welcome the train service (considering the train already passes through these communities).

Novar
Emsdale
Burk's Falls
Sundridge
Trout Creek
Powassan
Derland (Callander)
Earlton
Ramore
...

South of North Bay, it's a combination of (lack of) population served, and proximity to the major highway (11). South River seems to be the preferred stop instead of Trout Creek or Sundridge, because it's halfway between those other two. There might be a better chance with Earlton and Ramore, because of their distance from Toronto, but I wouldn't hold my breath... By comparison, the White River - Sudbury VIA train serves communities not close to a major highway, which is also why Thunder Bay no longer has passenger train service, but e.g. Armstrong does.

jp1822 wrote:If Transcona is a large enough "suburb" of Winnipeg it could be beneficial for the Canadian to make a "flagstop" there, as then people wouldn't have to travel all the way into Winnipeg via car, find/pay for parking, and then board the train. Sometimes Winnipeg is not the best city to get around in!

This sounds similar to the stop in Barrhaven (suburb of Ottawa). Years ago before the station was built, we'd have to go all the way to the Ottawa station. As Barrhaven got bigger and the population grew, so did the demand for a train station. Alot of people were saying "Why should I drive 30 kms across town to catch a train that literally goes through my back yard?" And eventually Via did build a station that is pretty much walking distance from my house.

VIA should have a stop in Transcona if the population and demand warrants it... and it sounds like it does.

warwgn3 wrote:

jp1822 wrote:If Transcona is a large enough "suburb" of Winnipeg it could be beneficial for the Canadian to make a "flagstop" there, as then people wouldn't have to travel all the way into Winnipeg via car, find/pay for parking, and then board the train. Sometimes Winnipeg is not the best city to get around in!

This sounds similar to the stop in Barrhaven (suburb of Ottawa). Years ago before the station was built, we'd have to go all the way to the Ottawa station. As Barrhaven got bigger and the population grew, so did the demand for a train station. Alot of people were saying "Why should I drive 30 kms across town to catch a train that literally goes through my back yard?" And eventually Via did build a station that is pretty much walking distance from my house.

VIA should have a stop in Transcona if the population and demand warrants it... and it sounds like it does.

There are a few problems with that. (Aside from the mentioned 3-4 hour layover at Union Station)

- A stop in Transcona would involve stopping a train that is often 20 cars long on a busy single track stretch of CN's Main line, whereas Union Station has it's own trainshed.
- Most of the Transcona portion of the line passes though a busy rail yard.
- VIA's service in Winnipeg and it's service in Ottawa are very different, since the Hudson Bay goes west a Transcona stop would see a total of six trains a week.

Found a VIA press release on a mailing list. CN killed the stop.

http://finance.ph.groups.yahoo.com/grou ... 8348?var=1

I suppose the Sudbury-White River train is a bad comparaison to the Northlander. A better one would be the Victoria-Courtenay train on Vancouver Island (given it runs a similar schedule like the Northlander). I'm not familiar with Pacific Canada. However following Google Maps, it seems like this train follows the main highway on the island.

bitf wrote:

warwgn3 wrote:

jp1822 wrote: ...

VIA should have a stop in Transcona if the population and demand warrants it... and it sounds like it does.

There are a few problems with that. (Aside from the mentioned 3-4 hour layover at Union Station)

- A stop in Transcona would involve stopping a train that is often 20 cars long on a busy single track stretch of CN's Main line, whereas Union Station has it's own trainshed.
- Most of the Transcona portion of the line passes though a busy rail yard.
- VIA's service in Winnipeg and it's service in Ottawa are very different, since the Hudson Bay goes west a Transcona stop would see a total of six trains a week.

One of the Service Managers on the Canadian told me that VIA was pleased to eliminate the stop in Transcona. For one thing, there was no shelter at the Transcona stop. We all know that it is not unusual for the Canadian to run many hours late, especially in winter. Also, because the westbound Canadian often arrives in Winnipeg early - an hour or more isn't unusual - it could mean sitting in Transcona for an extended period of time waiting for a passenger on the rare day that there was anyone booked. I think that's another reason why CN didn't want the Canadian stopping there.